One day left for delivery of DIS. Will it be on time? I am still confused about some of the allignmnet of the old 4.10,4.12, and 4.9. Are 4.10 and 4.12 now combined under 8.2.3? And how is 4.9 split up? I am implementing a Quality Management System in a company that is new to ISO so we are documenting it in the revised format.

As usual, thank you in advance.

As you may have read elsewhere, and I can confirm for you (as I am holding it in my hand - THE STANDARD), Australia has already (November 15th) published the ISO/DIS 9001:2000 standard as an Australian and New Zealand Interim Standard.

I'm not sure how you get a hold of the Australian version, but in the States I think you'll have to wait for ASQ and/or ANSI to publish it. The last that I read on this is that it will be late November or December before it is published here. Since this is the last day of November and there doesn't appear to be any sign of it yet, December is our month! Maybe our Australian colleagues could answer any specific questions that you have, though.

I got the CD2 draft from BSI - but it was expensive - like US$50 or so. I haven't really looked yet for the 'latest'.

There is a matrix near the front of the CD2 draft which 'aligns' the 2000 version with the 1994 revision.

In regard to Karen's original alignment problem, ISO/DIS 9001:2000 provides the matrix at Annex B. '1994' clause 4.10 corresponds to 7.1 + 7.5.1 + 8.1 + 8.2.4 of '2000'. clause 4.12 corresponds to 7.5.1
I'd suggest that one system level procedure would cover the field for these for most companies.
4.9 corresponds to 7.1 + 7.5.1 + 7.5.5

P.S. some of the clauses/requirements have been deleted and softened from CD2.

Standards Australia also has a handbook which explains the changes from ISO 9001:1994 to ISO/DIS 9001:2000.

As David said, the standard is out in Australia as an 'interim standard', meaning you have to you pay for it rather than getting a free copy of the DIS. That aside you can download a copy of 9001 from the Australian Standards Association website at ***DEAD LINK REMOVED*** for A$30.60 which is about US$20 at the moment or you can get 9004, which has all the elements from 9001 and goes further into the contineous improvement side of things, for A$42.30 (US$27).
The copy of 9004 does'nt have the conversion matrix however, maybe David can tell us if 9001 does, but I would think that 4.10 (Inspection and Testing) and 4.12 (Inspection and Test Status) would now be covered by 8.2.3 (Measurement and Monitoring or Product). BTW my copy of 9004 shows it's own item 8.2.3 as 'Measurement and monitoring of product', but it shows the 9001 item 8.2.3 as 'M & m of processes'. I think this is a misprint. Anyway I feel 4.10 and 4.12 would fall under 'M & m of product' what ever it's number.
As to 4.9 (Process Control) it is really covered in several places in 7 (Product Realization) (Note how ISO have corrupted our spelling of 'realiSation'). 7.1 addresses the Planning aspect from 4.9, 7.5 looks at the procedures for producing, verifying, delivering and servicing the product. We now jump out to 6.3 and 6.4 for the facilities and work environment and then over to 8.2.3 (or what ever) for measurment and monitioring of the product before coming back to 75. for maintenance of the equipment.
That's my interpretation anyway.
My advice, don't get to hung up about the numbers and which pidgeon hole to put them into, you probably do most of the things asked for anyway or you wouldn't be in business. Read the paragraph, work out what the intent, and ask your self "How do we handle that?"
The new structure is, to me anyway, far more logical and easier to follow and a big improvement. (It's actually 90% in line with the way I structured my system 2 years ago, well done ISO!)

For those of you in the States, the following might be of interest:

"Mid-Week Announcements from the ISO 9000:2000 Discussion Group

***DEAD LINK REMOVED***

December 1, 1999

FIRST NOTE: Many of you have been asking when the draft international
standard ISO 9001:2000 will be available to the public. The ASQ in the
United States called me yesterday to say that January 15, 2000 is the
official release date in this country. Mark your calendars and call them
at 800-248-1946 to get a copy."

So much for December, but at least we have a date!!

Damn! You beat me to posting that, Roger! You're FAST!I just did get the e-mail!

ISO 9001:2000 Discussion (Sponsored by the ISO 9000 Support Group)
***DEAD LINK REMOVED***

December 3, 1999

The ISO 9001:2000 DIS is out!

On December 1st I finally got my copy of the draft international standards 9000, 9001, and 9004. We’ll discuss these first. The replies to this week’s discussion are below.

A comparison of the DIS of ISO 9001 and the second committee draft indicates that a rope was thrown around CD2 and drawn tight to squeeze down the standard. The language of the DIS is tight and concise. There are still a few mistakes to be cleaned up, but the DIS has the same requirements as the second committee draft.

There are some minor changes to note. For one, Legal Requirements as a separate sub-element has been dropped. Instead, it is mentioned as being part of the quality management system. The quality manual has to contain justification for exclusions from the requirements of the standard. Infrastructure has changed names to "Facilities," reflecting a better definition of its scope. A good part of Section 8 has been reduced in language and combined with similar requirements to create a better element on Measurement.

Therefore, we can proceed as before with a discussion on the upcoming standard without the need to change much from previous discussions. Monday, we will continue with Section 6. The difference now is that I will have the DIS. If you want the DIS you need to live in a country that has released it, such as England, Sweden, or Australia. The U.S. readers might have to wait over a month to get a copy. However, copies can be purchased on the internet at the Standards Australia site.

If you have found any dramatic changes in the DIS, let us know.

I was browsing the ISO.ch website and tucked away in the discussion of ISO9000:2000 was a little "blurb" on ISO19011 (called "Environmental Management"). ISO19011(for those of you, like me, that never heard of it) is the absorption of ISO9000 into ISO14000. One grand environmental and quality standard that is due for release in the fall of 2001!

EDITING NOTE: in the ISO 10011 Dead - 19011 Evolves (http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000017.html) thread, Dennis Arter states: ISO 19011, the integrated standard for internal auditing of quality and environmental management systems, isplanned for release as a DIS in the September-October 2000 time frame to correspond with the release of ISO 9001:2000 as an FDIS. This will be one of the four core documents contained in the ISO 9000 family.

I had heard that discussions were taking place to do this, but I didn't know that its release was that close(close by ISO standards, anyway!). Has anyone seen a copy of this document? According to the ISO.ch site, the Committee Draft (CD) has been released. Again, just when you thought it was safe to come out and not be pelted by yet another standard...here it comes. (This must be the ISO version of a Stephen King novel.)

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 22 December 1999).]

Remember back a bit 19011 came up with the ISO19011 post (http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000017.html) I gleaned from a listserve?

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 05 December 1999).]

I'll echo Roger here - if anyone has or has seen a copy of this document, please let us know!

My guess is the 14k people have been heavily involved..... I do have the Env auditor standard. Let me ask around, I did hear some about it before, but I let it fall to the back of my mind....I'll dust off the remenants and see if I can remember who was burning my ear.

Originally posted by Roger Eastin:
I'm not sure how you get a hold (sic) of the Australian version

Work Instruction - How To Hold Document

Take your hand and open your fingers outward and swing your thumb out. Slide your thumb under the document (just a bit) and close your fingers together towards your thumb. When your fingers meet the document tighten against your thumb. Lift and you will be holding the document....
Rev1 12/99

Just kidding, of course http://www.qs9000.com/ubb/wink.gif

You can download pdf files from the Australian web site (VISA/MC/AmEx, etc). Be aware you need a PC and have to install a special plug-in. No plug-in for MacOS version of Acrobat.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 23 December 1999).]

I bought the pdf files - about $100 Australian for 3 - 9001, 9004 and their ISO comparison handbook.

The comparison handbook is well done. I figure they're worth it.

That would make it about 30c US, wouldn't it Mark? http://www.qs9000.com/ubb/wink.gif

Actually its about $64 US at the moment and like Mark said a pretty good deal. I started of with just 9004 as it actually reproduces the sections of 9001, but you miss the comparison table. I have now bought the comparision handbook and I agree that it is well worth it.
While you're at the Standards Australia site you might want to check out some of their guidelines for implementing ISO9K in various industries, eg medical etc. I feel they are leading the world in this area.

Oh and compliments of the season to all, however you choose to celebrate this time of the year.

If you are downloading from Standards Australia, a valuable purchase would be HB66(Int):2000. It is titled "Guide for Small Business" although don't be fooled, it will be equally valuable for the largest of multi-national corporations.
Regarding Karen's original concern, I wouldn't get too deep into aligning old with new. You are in the ideal position of starting fresh, so start by mapping all processes conducted by the company, determine within the maps where inspections, records and procedural control needs to be placed and that should start you on the way to preparing a comprehensive and valuable system. Only then do you need to open ISO9001:2000 to complete the picture, by adding those management system support processes such as CAR/PAR, internal audits, management reviews and so on..

------------------
Mark G.

Originally posted by Mark:
If you are downloading from Standards Australia, a valuable purchase would be HB66(Int):2000. It is titled "Guide for Small Business"Is this downloadable now? It was only available in hard copy when I downloaded the 9001 and 9004 specs.

Yes, It is available and is Aus$4 cheaper to download.
I thought for a minute I was a little too eager!

------------------
Mark G.

From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:07:51 -0600
Subject: Re: Structure of ISO 9001/2000 /Barnes/Arter

From: Dennis

I just ordered (and read!) a new book by Ketola and Roberts called "ISO 9000:2000 in a Nutshell." It does a great job of explaining the proposed revisions. Especially good is the arrangement of the information in the OLD (20 element) way. What's the same, what's changed, in a nutshell - for each of the 20 elements that many of us are quite familiar with. $25US from www.patonpress.com (http://www.patonpress.com)

Dennis R. Arter

Related Links:

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000179.html">Drafts updates</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000017.html">ISO 10011 Dead - 19011 Evolves</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000023.html">CD1-ISO 19011</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000041.html">Outsourcing Internal Audits</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000042.html">Identifying Continuous Improvement Opportunities</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000043.html">ISO 10011 Dead - 19011 Evolves</a>

<A HREF="http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000009.html">ISO 19011 and the Definition of Observation</a>