In planning the processes for realization of the product the organization shall determine the following as appropiate;
A) quality objectives for the product, project or contract.'
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Would i be right in thinking that in a prototype/project environment, as opposed to mass production, it is very difficult to set quality objectives?.

Regards

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Andy B

Andy,

I wouldn't think so, of course, our prototypes end up getting shipped to our customer anyway.

But our engineering staff wants the material built to their drawings/designs. One quality objective.

Our customers want the designs created to meet their specifications. Another quality objective.

And not only that, but everything is supposed to be at the correct rev level. I know that corrections go out to the floor, from the customer, etc. So you still have quality objectives. The specifics just change from project/design to project/design.

Just my experience.

AJP

Thanks for the reply AJPaton.

I sort of took building a product to the specification required and using the materials defined as a standard requirement, not really a quality objective.

Do you have any other thoughts what could be a quality objective in this environment?

Regards

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Andy B

Andy

A possible example : Your contract/specification may require delivery in 12 weeks, however your objective is to deliver it in 10 weeks, as this will generate a higher satisfaction for your customer.

In our case we are actively trying to get our customers to tell us relatively what is more important - speed/cost/flexibility/responsiveness. We find this very difficult to embody in a contract, as defined customer requirements, as by there nature they are difficult to make tangible in the way that the dimensional specifications of a prototype would be. However getting the right balance of the above, can be clearly indicated as a Quality objective and if we get a clear steer from our customers, the measurement of performance on this objective should be inexorably linked to customer satisfaction.

Our other quality objectives stem from management policy - e.g. policy is to be more profitable, objective for prototype is to deliver it with 25% less labour.

Hope these thoughts help....

Cheers, Al.

It's been my experience that a large number of problems seem to come from an inability to identify a prototype. In one factory in which I worked, we made twelve trailers as a prototype batch, every one was different. In another company it was declared 'we are not in the business of making prototypes', yet every item was 'custom built'.
I suggest we should 'make our mistakes' on prototypes, not on 'production' items.

Are Quality Plans a requirement of clause 7.1 of ISO 9001:2000?

I have a copy of Advanced Product Quality Planning and Control Plan (APQP) from AIAG, but it is more than I am looking for.

I am trying to get my hands on a copy of ISO 10005 "Guidelines for Quality Plans". Can anyone help?

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler

Hey Hank !

7.1 does not require a Quality Plan, but, does only referecne it in NOTE 1----that you may refer your documented planning process as a Quality Plan.

Whatever you wanna call it, a consistent, documetned format used for this process is certainly value added and required---- but you cannot be audited to a "Quality Plan".

P.S.--SORRY ! ISO 10005 must be the ONLY guideline I don't have. Good luck sir ! :bigwave:

ISO 10005 is available for purchase from ANSI...

Key word "as appropriate". Say what you are doing. Product Objectives = Specifications

Bruce,

Thanks for the reply.

I was aware that the Standard was available for purchase, but I was hoping that someone could offer their knowledge of this document and the benefit of it. I could not even find a preview of it on the web.

Regretably, yesterday I paid for a download of ISO 10005 Standard "Guidelines for Quality Plans". It contained little more than a repeat of the ISO 9001:1994 Standard.

If anyone knows of a document that would provide some guidance toward "7.1 Planning of Product Realization" and "7.2 Customer Related Processes" I would appreciate a lead. They seem to be a combined process in our organization. I am specifically interested in a Product Quality Planning Summary and Sign-off Checklist. I have the one in the APQP Manual from AIAG, but it doesn't address the requirements as stated in ISO 9001:2000. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler

Hank,

Ouch! Sorry you were not pleased with the ISO 10005 document. BTW: the document is scheduled for discontinuation, I believe at the next meeting in Birmingham...

The best resource I have found for guidance on the ISO 9000:2000 family is the tome:

The ASQ ISO 9000:2000 Handbook: Cianfrani, C.A.; Tsiakals, J.J. and West, J.E. , editors. ASQ Quality Press (2002). ISBN: 0-87389-522-3.

Book is expensive, but includes a CD with copies of the standards and other support documents...

HTH

Andy,

I would not treat prototypes under the "Product Realisation" scheme of things.

Keep them as they are ..still under development as per 7.3

Regards,

Chris

I think one of the key questions here is what is the product? If the contract is for prototype parts, then 7.1 a) clearly applies. If you develop prototype parts outside of the contract, then it does not.

A difference would be if I owned the design. Let's say I make custom fishing rods (I sell them to energy). Prototype development is for my benefit and the customer never knows they exist. 7.1 a) does not apply. (?)

On the other hand energy askes me to make a line of rods for his company. Now he wants to see (and approve?) the rods before they are produced. Now 7.1 a) is applicable. (?)

Am I missing anything?

Any contemporary comments or discussion on Planning of Realization Processes - Setting Quality Objectives?