Standard clause 5.3 is “Customer Focus” , its contents is as following:
“Top management shall ensure that customer requirements are determined and fulfilled with the aim of enhancing customer satisfaction”
And, the one of eight quality principles is “Customer focus”, its requirements are higher, it requests organization to exceed customer’s expectations, not requirements.
How to carry out the philosophy of “ Customer Focus” in quality management?
Do you give some suggestions? Thanks!:o:)

To be a customer focus organization, we need to clearly understand what are customer requirement and how do we measure customer satisfaction.

Customer can be internal and external. To implement next process is our customer concept will help us to cary out "customer focus" in the organization.

Tools such as house of quality and quality function deployment are important to help us to specifiy the customer requirement in matrix form to communication or deployment in company wide plant.

To be a customer focus organization, we need to clearly understand what are customer requirement and how do we measure customer satisfaction. .

we need to clearly understand what are customer requirement

you are right!
But i often thinking of this question,having met customer requirement equal customer satisfication or not? Because, in reality, some customer does not express their requirements accurately.:mg::)

Satisfaction for the customer is based on their PERCEPTION. Therefore, satisfaction is much more than simply meeting stated or unstated requirements.

Satisfaction for the customer is based on their PERCEPTION. Therefore, satisfaction is much more than simply meeting stated or unstated requirements.

Can you give an example of a situation where a customer's requirements (stated and/or unstated) are consistently met, but the customer's perception is negative?

We can have the survey to study the customer satisfaction. Train customer service to have more skills to communicate to customer.

Can you give an example of a situation where a customer's requirements (stated and/or unstated) are consistently met, but the customer's perception is negative?

I give an example: a friend of mine wanted to buy a computer. but he has a little of computer knowledge.the requirements he stated is a computer can handle usual documentations.but,after he have bought the computer,he was adviced by someone and to expecte to upgrade the computer,he wanted to install AUTO CAD and PHOTOSHOP software.because his computer's compabitility is poor, the installant is failed. Although,his stated and unstated requirements has been met, but he is not satisfactory, and he usually complain about his ugly computer,saying "I have expected it brings me convenience and happy originally, but, in reality, it brings me trouble now,even I think sometimes to throw the ugly computer.":o:)

We can have the survey to study the customer satisfaction. Train customer service to have more skills to communicate to customer.

Right!
the skills to communicate with customer is important element during the process of determing customer's real demands, not requirements, because there are some immature customers, so customer service personnel want dig out customer's real demands through his communication skills.

By the way, may you give some the details of your survey to study the customer satisfaction.
I look forward your kind replies! Thanks!:o:)

Although,his stated and unstated requirements has been met, but he is not satisfactory, and he usually complain about his ugly computer,

His unstated requriements have not been met though have they. He could not install the software he wanted on the computer! Therefore whoever sold him the computer did not accurately translate the needs of the customer into the product they eventually sold them.

It is this skill that separates "World Class" organisations from those that may or may not "meet" the customers requirements. You need the ability to accurately obtain all of the customers needs, stated, unstated and even those that the customer does not state, need or imply!

Bare in mind these gaps that need to be closed and these can exist within any part of your organisation (These have been identified by Juran) :

- Understanding Gap. - Understanding of Needs
- Design Gap. - Ability to take the needs and produce a design to meet those needs.
- Process Gap. - Capability to deliver design.
- Operations Gap - Actual delivery of the product/process.
- Perception Gap - Customers perception of yours/anyone else's product/process/service.

Focus on these gaps throughout your organisation and you will begin to see how a customer focus can be reflected within different areas.

Remember, in order to exceed a customers expectations you need to do more than just meet their needs. For example, a customer may just say they need a toaster that produces great toast everyday for around 6 years at a reasonable cost. However, you could build a machine that makes toast and plays music at the same time, all at a reasonable cost. The customer may not have originally requested the musical feature, but they love it and hence you have met, then exceeded their requirements.

I recommend you try and read around the subject, as previously mentioned QFD and House of Quality are good tools, but effective planning in every aspect of your organisation would yield a world of opportunity and bring about increased customer focus.

Remember plan what you want to do from the strategic level and cascade the requirements down to the operational level (easier said than done but that's the "Quality" challenge!)

Please, everyone, tell me how one knows what the unstated requiermetns are? And, how would you know that they are consistently met?

It is impossible. Absolutley impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the unstated requriements are met.

We think this s a linear problem with cause and effect. What is "quality?" We assume that "satisfaction" (whatever that is) is an effect of meeting requirements. Quality is meeting requirements? If so, how would anyone ever know what all of the requirments are? We don't and won't. It is not a linear, analyitcal thing. There are subjective, romantic (vs. analystical), perceptual basis to satisfaction.

Satisfied cusotmers don't always tell you they are satisfied nor do they always return. Unsatisfied cusotmers don't always tell you they are unsatisfied and may return.

Any by the way, a state of satisfaction is a point in time and not permament thing.

Just get those surveys going. Measure those key items that you think means the customer is satisfied. Show these items to the external auditor and move on.

Regards,

Dirk

....You need the ability to accurately obtain all of the customers needs, stated, unstated and even those that the customer does not state, need or imply!


You are right!
How does employee obtain the ABILITY to accurately obtain all of the customers needs? is it a quesion also? and by the way,does the employee that has the ability equal the customers satisfaction? :tg::)

I give an example: a friend of mine wanted to buy a computer. but he has a little of computer knowledge.the requirements he stated is a computer can handle usual documentations.but,after he have bought the computer,he was adviced by someone and to expecte to upgrade the computer,he wanted to install AUTO CAD and PHOTOSHOP software.because his computer's compabitility is poor, the installant is failed. Although,his stated and unstated requirements has been met, but he is not satisfactory, and he usually complain about his ugly computer,saying "I have expected it brings me convenience and happy originally, but, in reality, it brings me trouble now,even I think sometimes to throw the ugly computer.":o:)

Sometimes customers are unreasonable, and negative perceptions can't be helped. It's common in situations like the one you relate (at least in the US) for sales people to be "incentivized" to "sell up." This means that sales people are often strongly encouraged to sell customers more than what they actually need (which can also result in negative perceptions). In the case of a computer buyer who says he needs only the minimum, it would be unusual for a sales person not to suggest that a "bare bones" system might not meet the customer's needs in the near future, even if it does today. At that point the customer can decide for himself, and if he later decides he wants to run Photoshop and blames the person or business who sold him the computer, there's not much the seller can do about it.

There will always be unreasonable customers, and short of encouraging them to take their business elsewhere, there's not much a seller can do about it.

Please, everyone, tell me how one knows what the unstated requiermetns are? I go to a restaurant with my wife. I expect the utensils on the table to be clean. I don't stop the hostess taking me to the table and read her my specification for an acceptable dinner experience and make her commit to satisfy them. And, how would you know that they are consistently met? Restaurant manager has never received a complaint that the utensils at the table were dirty, for example.It is impossible. Absolutley impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the unstated requriements are met.I just showed one example to prove it is possible. Another million examples could be offered.Satisfied cusotmers don't always tell you they are satisfied nor do they always return. Unsatisfied cusotmers don't always tell you they are unsatisfied and may return.
Any by the way, a state of satisfaction is a point in time and not permament thing. Very true.Just get those surveys going. Measure those key items that you think means the customer is satisfied.Many people know that surveys are, in many cases, innefective ways to solicit customer feedback. Instead of measuring what YOU (as the supplier) think it is important to the customer, you should really try to identify what is important, from your CUSTOMER's perspective. That is a typical failure of many organizations: they assume they know what is important to the customers, instead of probing the information. And, you might find out that similar customers have dissimilar focus areas. Even though, this might result in more work for the supplier, if you are really committed to satisfying the customers, first thing you need to know what is important to them.Show these items to the external auditor and move on.I don't think the goal is to have a check mark on the external auditor's checklist, but an effective customer satisfaction monitoring process.

Please, everyone, tell me how one knows what the unstated requiermetns are? And, how would you know that they are consistently met?

It is impossible. Absolutley impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the unstated requriements are met.


I think it's a fair question, but I don't think it approaches the level of impossibility. Remember that we're dealing with perceptions here, and not legalities. I might be able to say, as a supplier, that if I've met the written, contractual requirements of a customer, that his needs have been met in a legal sense. But what we're talking about here goes deeper, and speaks to a supplier's ability to have an advantage over his competitors by going beyond the words of the contract. A supplier might get a call from a customer who suddenly and unexpectedly has a need for the supplier's product. The supplier isn't obligated to do anything beyond the limits of the contractual agreement, but if he makes an effort to get his customer out of trouble and another supplier doesn't, whom do you think will get the edge on new business from that customer? Customer needs can never be completely expressed in contractual terms, and how well a supplier is able to meet the unwritten needs is how positive perception gets built. What feeds customers' desires to buy more stuff from you? In many cases it consists in what you can do for them that they didn't ask for.

In many cases it consists in what you can do for them that they didn't ask for.

It's called "the extra mile." The surprise, that little extra effort that brings a smile on people's face. So true.

Stijloor.

Please, everyone, tell me how one knows what the unstated requiermetns are? And, how would you know that they are consistently met?

It is impossible. Absolutley impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the unstated requriements are met.

I have to disagree. Jim has gone some way to explain how this is not strictly impossible. If stated requirements are the only way in which organisations carry out their focus on the customer, where would the competitive advantage lie? Everyone would be doing the same thing and meeting the stated requirements. OK some may do it better than others, but with time and benchmarking, that performance can be replicated.

How you obtain unstated requirements would need a whole new thread, but some ideas would be:

- A greater depth of research.
- Look at not just intended uses, but also ways in which the product/service/process could be used or misused in the field.
- Test Marketing.

Many more techniques exist, but you've got to be creative and think outside the box.

This is as true for a process or internal service as it is for the design of a new product.

Friends,

I have worked with several commercial printers (ISO 9001:2000). They all consistently met Customer's (contractual) specifications and requirements in terms of quality, delivery and pricing. One of them always outperformed the others in customer satisfaction, generation of new business and profitability. Why? Relentless customer focus. They were able to figure out what really "wowed" the customer. Anyone with the right equipment and competencies can print specifically what the customer wants. Not everyone is (willing? or able?) to run the extra mile to find out what really excites the customer.

I am sure that you have been "wowed" by a supplier a few times. (I mean in a positive sense!) :D

Stijloor.

...
How you obtain unstated requirements would need a whole new thread, but some ideas would be:

Many more techniques exist, but you've got to be creative and think outside the box.
...

You are right? it is a big one.

In fact,for some situations,authough customers' requirements has been met, but they are not satisfactory. Because the some customers are not proffessional to the products the want to buy, especially in final consumers.

having met customer's requirements are legal duty, having met cutomer's needs is let customers to obtain satisfactory. the both are the same important. So a effectiveness communication ability is necessary.


what is a real customer's need?
First, I think it need to define a scope or a timeline, for customer's needs or requirements is continually developing.A ability of product to meet customers' needs is too more or too less than customer's needs or expectations is not good.:D:)

This is such a difficult one, becuase a lot of customers don't truely know what they want!

Unless your customer get's it right, you don't have any future business, this is why the value of customer/supplier relations has changed in over the last decade. The OEM's (but this can apply to any industry, product or service) have realised the value of good suppliers, and how they can help develop products that ultimately advance their own offering.

They are looking for innovative suppliers who not only supply what they want, but also what they need!

Hello Sidney and Company:

So if an organizations meets one or a few unstated requirements, then they know and meet them all consistently and the customer is satisfied?

How does one example in a resturant setting show that all resturant customer unstated requirements are met and that the resturant knows those unstated requriments and consistently meets those unstated requriments?

One example of meeting an unstated requirement, at one point in time, in a resturant setting, means that the customer is statisfied overall?

I don't get it and to be honest think that with the provided example we have simplified the discussion.

Regards,

Dirk

Dirk, if you really think it is impossible for organizations to satisfy customers with unstated expectations, how do you explain the success of Starbucks, EBay, Southwest Airlines, etc...? Are they just plain lucky?

I reckon that in a b2b (business to business) relationship, unstated requirements handling is different from a b2c approach. However, as others have already mentioned, an organization's ability to take care of customer's unstated expectations differentiates them from the competitors.

If an organization approaches this as: we could care less about our customer's unstated expectations, they really don't care for the customer.

I did not say it was impossible to satisfy customers with unstated requirements. I said it is impossible to know all of the unstated requirements. Do you think Starbucks knows all of their customer's unstated requriments and has them on a list? Do they know that my buddy Frank only likes half of the amount of whip cream they put on theur lattes? They know in general what most of the customers require.

I am not implying to not care about unstated requirements. No one can define all of the unstated requirements. We can know many of them or some of them. Unstated requirements change and are dynamic.

Not all Starbucks customers are satisfied all of the time. You cannot line up all of the requirements, add them up, divide them, put them into a formula, and say that you know the customer is satisfied. Satisfaction is a perception and therefore customer focus must try to drive at understanding that perception over time. Cusotmer satisfaction cannot be done at the supplying organiztion, with pencil and paper, a formula, and only calculated once. You have to actually interact with the customer to understand their perception.

One cannot measure satisfaction in an analytical, linear fashion with an equation or forumla. What I am saying is that a customer focus is a focus on the customer's perception of the supplying organization.

I did not say it was impossible to satisfy customers with unstated requirements. I said it is impossible to know all of the unstated requirements. Do you think Starbucks knows all of their customer's unstated requriments and has them on a list? Do they know that my buddy Frank only likes half of the amount of whip cream they put on theur lattes? They know in general what most of the customers require.

I am not implying to not care about unstated requirements. No one can define all of the unstated requirements. We can know many of them or some of them. Unstated requirements change and are dynamic.

Not all Starbucks customers are satisfied all of the time. You cannot line up all of the requirements, add them up, divide them, put them into a formula, and say that you know the customer is satisfied. Satisfaction is a perception and therefore customer focus must try to drive at understanding that perception over time. Cusotmer satisfaction cannot be done at the supplying organiztion, with pencil and paper, a formula, and only calculated once. You have to actually interact with the customer to understand their perception.

One cannot measure satisfaction in an analytical, linear fashion with an equation or forumla. What I am saying is that a customer focus is a focus on the customer's perception of the supplying organization.

I think you've summed it up with your comment about customer needs and perceptions change with time. They do and successful organisations will recognise these changes in needs and perceptions and adapt. McDonald's is another large example of this happening, but I actually think it is easier in a business to consumer relationship, because most of the time you have such an interactive relationship and canvassing for their opinion is generally easier. Like Sidney stated, B2B is a different kettle of fish and IMO much harder to get right.

Perhaps you cannot always know every need and perception of your customers, but the successful organisations are those that recognise and act on more than thier competitors!

......therefore customer focus must try to drive at understanding that perception over time. .......You have to actually interact with the customer to understand their perception.

......What I am saying is that a customer focus is a focus on the customer's perception of the supplying organization.

Very good!
measurement of customer's satisfactory must based on customer's perception. the same products or service, but the different customers, the perception is different. The perception root in folks' related awareness and knowledge,etc..

So we must consider the customer's perception for either design product or review satisfaction. and we must focus on the customer's perception for the customer's satisfaction. At the same time, the organization must focus on the customer's needs, the customer's needs is always original inputs. But the organization shall not meet all the customer's needs!:(:D

Sidney posted "Dirk, if you really think it is impossible for organizations to satisfy customers with unstated expectations, how do you explain the success of Starbucks, EBay, Southwest Airlines, etc...? Are they just plain lucky?

By the way Sidney, what data do you have that shows Starbucks, Ebay, and South West Airlines are not just lucky? Becasue they are "successful?" I don't think success (however that is defined) rules out luck.

Thank you,

Dirk

By the way Sidney, what data do you have that shows Starbucks, Ebay, and South West Airlines are not just lucky? Becasue they are "successful?" I don't think success (however that is defined) rules out luck.Dirk, I have no intention to carry on a meaningless exchange.

Have a great weekend.

Wow!

Meaningless? It is meaningful for you to try to make a point directed at me specifically, but it is meaningless for me to ask the opposite question directly to you? This doesn't seem very mutual or equitable.

You imply that since Starbucks et al are successful then it is not luck. I ask for some type of supportiing info and my question is meangless? And it is meaningless in a thread about customer focus?


In the United States:

The average tenure of a CEO is 2 years. The average employee tenure is 5 years. 5% of all new businesses survive past 5 years. The average life of an organization that surives past 5 years is about 20 years. Most organizations (statisitically) don't last more than 5 years and the ones that do generally don't last more than 20 years.

These staticitics were provided by Bill Cooper and Russel Ackoff. I cannot assume anything about any one organization based on this provided data buit if the data is accurate, it sure seems as though organzitions are lucky for a few years and then end.

How can there be continuity and continual customer focus with this kind of business environment?

In the United States:

The average tenure of a CEO is 2 years. The average employee tenure is 5 years. 5% of all new businesses survive past 5 years. The average life of an organization that surives past 5 years is about 20 years. Most organizations (statisitically) don't last more than 5 years and the ones that do generally don't last more than 20 years.

These staticitics were provided by Bill Cooper and Russel Ackoff. I cannot assume anything about any one organization based on this provided data buit if the data is accurate, it sure seems as though organzitions are lucky for a few years and then end.
In this context, the word "lucky" is meaningless, imo. Can you provide a rigorous definition for it, and then tell how you distinguish lack of luck from all of the things that might contribute to businesses ceasing to exist? If an entrepreneur opens his business with enough cash reserves to operate for five years without profit, then gets to the end of the five years, has no more cash and no profits, was his business open for five years due to luck?

Not only that, there are lots of reasons that businesses cease to exist that do not involve failure of any kind. Sometimes owners die and successors aren't interested in the business and liquidate it. Sometimes people retire. Sometimes people decide they don't like being in business for themselves once they've tried it.

I have been away for a couple of weeks and just caught up with this excellent discussion. From my point of view customer perception is the most powerful phrase in the 2000 standard. It urges us to go beyond the "obvious".
I have just read an excellent book which deals virtually entirely with customer perception, yet never uses that specific word. Ken Blanchard, co-author of The One Minute Manager, has co-authored "Raving Fans - A Revolutionary Approach to Customer Service", when talking about customer feedback says, "Silence is a message and NOT usually a good one".
The book also makes the point that an organization must make decisions about which customers it wants to attract and hold, saying an organization can't be everything to everyone.

Wow!

Meaningless? It is meaningful for you to try to make a point directed at me specifically, but it is meaningless for me to ask the opposite question directly to you? This doesn't seem very mutual or equitable.

You imply that since Starbucks et al are successful then it is not luck. I ask for some type of supportiing info and my question is meangless? And it is meaningless in a thread about customer focus?Totally meaningless. If you TRULY believe that well established and successful business can do so by luck only, what is the point of having customer focus, business models, business theories, compliance to business standards, etc...? What is the point of aiming at customer satisfaction improvement, if luck is all we need. It seems to me that the vast majority of business failures happen EXACTLY because inexperienced entrepeneurs believe and act as luck is all they need for the business to prosper.

When you ask By the way Sidney, what data do you have that shows Starbucks, Ebay, and South West Airlines are not just lucky? what kind of data (if it were possible to collect and present it) would satisfy you? What data could really prove if an organization is simply lucky or not?

Dear zerodefect:

I am going to answer the questions by assuming that you jut want to be in compliance with the intent of the ISO 9001:2000 standard, clause 5.2 Customer Focus. In practice, you may need to do other things in order to delight your customers.

The clause 5.2 is not a process; it is a general statement that requires that you read both clauses 7.2.1 and 8.2.1

The clause 7.2.1 requires that you determine the requirements specified by the customer, etc (i.e. read a, b, c, d). Depending on your organization this may involve marketing, sales, engineering, etc. What other companies typically do is to identify your intra-company transactions (i.e. e-mails, request for quotes, quotes, P.O., evaluations, etc) to achieve the business objectives and a process is defined in order to ensure that repeatability of results is achieved.

The clause 8.2.1 requires that your organization determine the methods to capture and use information relating to customer perception. This data gathering can take many forms: scorecards from costumers, contracting customer surveys, responding to customer complains, phone calls asking for feedback (i.e. you can sample a group of customers), etc are just some examples of perception gathering tools. You can use of this information as an input to Management Review, clause 5.6

Hope this helps.

Cuadra

I cannot comprehend a discussion about "luck" having any relevance to a discussion about customer focus. Standards and the work of the "Gurus" do not exist purely for our entertainment. They are there to offer a solid, and in many cases proven base on which to manage a business.

I would perhaps term luck as something beyond the control of the organisation. This can both have adverse as well as positive effects. If you take this description, perhaps we could more accurately term it 'Risk'. Is the basis of management standards, corporate and business planning not about 'Risk Management'? Managing this risk enables us to identify areas of risk/luck and harness the good opportunities and mitigate the bad. There will always be an element of unknown, but like I have said in a previous post, it is those organisations that anticipate the most unknown factors and plan for their occurrence that are generally successful.

A total reliance on luck disregards the use of many tools used for the management and planning tools we discuss here everyday. This disregard would be like digging a hole with your hands, whilst a spade lay on the ground next you.

If you need evidence of effectiveness you need to research their company reports and analyse the methods these organisations use with specific reference to customer focus.

I cannot comprehend a discussion about "luck" having any relevance to a discussion about customer focus. Standards and the work of the "Gurus" do not exist purely for our entertainment. They are there to offer a solid, and in many cases proven base on which to manage a business.

I would perhaps term luck as something beyond the control of the organisation. This can both have adverse as well as positive effects. If you take this description, perhaps we could more accurately term it 'Risk'. Is the basis of management standards, corporate and business planning not about 'Risk Management'? Managing this risk enables us to identify areas of risk/luck and harness the good opportunities and mitigate the bad. There will always be an element of unknown, but like I have said in a previous post, it is those organisations that anticipate the most unknown factors and plan for their occurrence that are generally successful.

A total reliance on luck disregards the use of many tools used for the management and planning tools we discuss here everyday. This disregard would be like digging a hole with your hands, whilst a spade lay on the ground next you.

If you need evidence of effectiveness you need to research their company reports and analyse the methods these organisations use with specific reference to customer focus.I suppose luck happens, but in today's climate I expect that stumbling into a new invention (like the sticky note's glue that was supposed to be superglue) is much more likely than stumbling into customer satisfaction in service.

A customer's unspoken expectation is unspoken until the customers are asked what they want. So often this inquiry does not happen, and follow up with success data is even more rare.

I agree that individual companies could be researched. One might also find what looks like case studies in the Baldrige Award winners web site, but actual examples might be buried in the applications and not found in the summaries.

Eh, seems like there's quite a bit of verbal sword play in this thread. I'm not sure if we can't agree to disagree or define succintly and come to agreement?

This is quite a sensitive issue for me, as I expect for many companies and quality individuals. Here are some of my thoughts.

It's mostly about communication for me, at least at this stage for my company. I can never seem to get enough information out of our Sales guys, not even enough to answer their questions properly. Can't always blame Sales, either. Our customers, in most cases, have no idea what they want.

So let me try to brainstorm a little and break this down,

1. We have not done our homework. The first thing, in my mind, is a marketing analysis. Sales should approach the customers knowing quite well what they want. We don't do this enough and are suffering for it.

2. We don't spend enough time with our customers. My Sales guys spend one hour meetings on a monthly basis with most of our clients. Hardly enough to understand their stated requirements, much less unstated or unknown requirements.

My attitude is generally, "do you know the color of your customer's underwear? Do you know his kid's birthday? Do you know their org chart?" If you don't know them well on a personal and professional level, it's so much harder to communicate.

3. We don't always demonstrate how much we care. For a relatively small company, we appear to not have the resources to provide on-call service for all customer claims.

My quality mentor keeps telling me, "if you go over there and spend time and look at their process, you'll figure things out they won't know themselves." This sounds like a reliable way to discover unstated requirements, not to mention it'll give them the warm and fuzzy feeling.

Recently we sent someone over to the customer on a claim. He found they wanted something completely different than what they complained about. That confirms the above comment, and makes me wonder if this second time is any good.

I think there's definitely a place you can reach from where you can have solutions ready before your customer raises the complaint. It's not magical. It's just quite an investment.

It's also Marketing, Sales, Customer Service, QA, Top Management. Everyone has to contribute.

Now if you take that a step further and apply to internal customers, that's another bucket I won't spill today.

My attitude is generally, "do you know the color of your customer's underwear?:mg:. This line is drawn way too far...

:mg:. This line is drawn way too far...

Ooh, yes. That would be rather too much information for me :lol: