hi I`m a bout to qualify a consulting small company 5 people for iso9001:2000
and that company produces only consultation services such as (feasibility studies) (project management) ( banking consultations) etc plus a new system for improving organizations(MANAGEMENT SYSTEM) developed internally (inside the company a mix between standard quality and project management) but i need a help in the phase 7 procedures and what are the exclusions in them
7.1 Planning of product realization
7.2 Customer-related processes
7.3 Design and development
7.4 Purchasing
7.5.1 Control of production and service provision
7.5.2 Validation of processes for production and service provision
7.5.3 Identification and traceability
7.5.4 Customer property
7.5.5 Preservation of product
7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices
8.3 Control of nonconforming product

Here are a few thoughts:

7.1 How they plan their operational processes
7.2 How they take on new business - quotations etc
7.3 How they design their consultancy projects
7.4 How they buy in resources such as other consultants
7.5 How they control the delivery and implementation of their projects - possibly exclude 7.5.5
7.6 Probably excluded

thanx
but need to ask
for 7.4 no purchases related to the product only purchases of paper,pens,etc
shall i consider outsourced consultants as purchases or what ? or shall i exclude ?
for 7.5.5 Preservation of product there is no store , only place for keeping paper,files etc ..shall i exclude

for 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices i thing questionaire and surveys may be used right?
can i exclude 7.5.3 Identification and traceability and 7.5.4 Customer property
for 7.2 Customer-related processes ,7.5.1 Control of production and service provision , 7.5.2 Validation of processes for production and service provision ,8.3 Control of nonconforming product
what shall i mention?

so sorry for many questions:thanx:

[QUOTE=MDWEEK;226804]thanx
but need to ask
for 7.4 no purchases related to the product only purchases of paper,pens,etc
shall i consider outsourced consultants as purchases or what ? or shall i exclude ?

7.4 can be excluded, because consultant company' products is humen's knowledge, and this requirments is included in 6.2.

for 7.5.5 Preservation of product there is no store , only place for keeping paper,files etc ..shall i exclude

7.5.5 shall not be excluded, files are all knowledge's medium, and it is a part of the product.

for 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices i thing questionaire and surveys may be used right?

you may exclude 7.6, questionarie and surveys' requirements is included in 8.0

can i exclude 7.5.3 Identification and traceability and 7.5.4 Customer property
for 7.2 Customer-related processes ,7.5.1 Control of production and service provision , 7.5.2 Validation of processes for production and service provision ,8.3 Control of nonconforming product
what shall i mention?

you can not exclude the above.

but can i exclude 7.5.3 Identification and traceability and 7.5.4 Customer property as they do not apply to consultation company right?
:thanks:

but can i exclude 7.5.3 Identification and traceability and 7.5.4 Customer property as they do not apply to consultation company right?
:thanks:

Maybe 7.5.3. However, 7.5.4 can not be excluded because any document that your consulting client provides to you for review is considered customer property.

Stijloor.

thanx
but need to ask
for 7.4 no purchases related to the product only purchases of paper,pens,etc
shall i consider outsourced consultants as purchases or what ? or shall i exclude ?
for 7.5.5 Preservation of product there is no store , only place for keeping paper,files etc ..shall i exclude

for 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices i thing questionaire and surveys may be used right?
can i exclude 7.5.3 Identification and traceability and 7.5.4 Customer property
for 7.2 Customer-related processes ,7.5.1 Control of production and service provision , 7.5.2 Validation of processes for production and service provision ,8.3 Control of nonconforming product
what shall i mention?

so sorry for many questions:thanx:


Please see my answer to your PM for my thoughts

Hi again
regarding 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices in consulting company have any one any idea about how can it be:thanks:

regarding 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices in consulting company have any one any idea about how can it be or it can be excluded better??

regarding 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices in consulting company have any one any idea about how can it be or it can be excluded better??

Hello MDWEEK,

Because a typical (QMS) consulting company does not engage in inspections and testing of product (hardware), clause 7.6 can be excluded.

Stijloor.

thanks Mr Stijloor.

and in fact i have some miss understanding regarding 7.4 Purchasing what shall it include , as i mentioned before in the first thread that that company purchases only paper,pens ,etc
shall i prepare forms like
request for quotation,purchase order,return materials,etc or only exclude 7.4 Purchasing and make only a procedure called outsourcing in which i mention the way of dealing with external consultants


please help me and i appreciate your help and all members help:thanx:

thanks Mr Stijloor.

and in fact i have some miss understanding regarding 7.4 Purchasing what shall it include , as i mentioned before in the first thread that that company purchases only paper,pens ,etc
shall i prepare forms like request for quotation,purchase order,return materials,etc or only exclude 7.4 Purchasing and make only a procedure called outsourcing in which i mention the way of dealing with external consultants


please help me and i appreciate your help and all members help:thanx:

Hello MDWEEK,

When you outsource work to other consultants, then the requirements for purchasing apply. Purchasing applies to products and services that directly affect the "product" (in your case consulting services) you provide to your customers. Paper, pencils and toilet paper would not apply. :D

However, if you want to 'formalize" the purchasing of supplies, etc., you can do this as you see fit. (An external auditor would not be too concerned about it.)

Stijloor.

Hello MDWEEK,

When you outsource work to other consultants, then the requirements for purchasing apply. Purchasing applies to products and services that directly affect the "product" (in your case consulting services) you provide to your customers. Paper, pencils and toilet paper would not apply. :D

However, if you want to 'formalize" the purchasing of supplies, etc., you can do this as you see fit. (An external auditor would not be too concerned about it.)

Stijloor.

MDWEEK - Once again, I agree with Stijloor - but then again, I already gave you this answer in response to the PM you sent me!

Thanks mr Colpart
yes you did and thank u v.much for your continuous help
i really appreciate that from you many thanks:thanks:

Hello MDweek:

I think 7.3 might be excluded but I doubt it. Based on the little information, it appears they design their service. 7.5.2 could be excluded and maybe the control of montioring and measureing devices. I think all the rest applies.

How can you be "about to quality" the organization and you have all of these questions related to section 7? Section 7 is a pretty important section of ISO 9001.

Try to think of their service as the product and get away from the traditional manufacturing (tangible widget) approach to the clauses. Remove the manufacturing filters and paradigms to your thought. Read the text of ISO9001 as written.

I wold be amazed to learn of an organziation that does not purcahse anything. The controls and extent of control depend on the impact to the organzitions service realization process. There may be very low impact but I am not sure that 7.4 can be totally disregarded.

Thank You

Dirk, you voiced one of my concerns with this thread very well. With so many questions regarding possible exclusions, it almost makes it appear that the client in this case skips the D (Do) portion of the Plan-Do-Check-Act cycle! And we all know that just isn't possible!

Regarding purchasing as it applies to a consulting organization, I would think that if an outside service is used to provide back-ups of files or store records, they'd be a vital item to control via 7.4

You summed it quite nicely though by repeating what ISO 9001 says. Where product is stated, it means both product and service. In the world of consultants, their product is a service. Substitute that in eveywhere you see "product" in the standard, MDWeek. That may help you greatly.

Secondly, there are ISO 9001 courses offerred that focus on implementing the standard in service organizations. You may wish to consider taking such a course.