What definitely are the most important areas that concern the external auditors
and he can not forgive in it:thanks:

I know this is not the answer you wanted but - all of them!

If the auditor is to recommend certification to ISO 9001 s/he must ensure that all of the clauses have been addressed and satisfied.

What definitely are the most important areas that concern the external auditors
and he can not forgive in it:thanks:

The (external) auditors will verify that every applicable "Shall" is adequately addressed. They will verify that the quality management system is effectively implemented, maintained and (over time) continually improved.

In short, a system that is compliant and works.

And that my friend, requires relentless, unwavering Management commitment which (good) auditors will verify.

Stijloor.

What definitely are the most important areas that concern the external auditors
and he can not forgive in it:thanks:

The other answers here notwithstanding, what auditors spend the most time on is sometimes a function of their own experience. For example, an auditor who spent twenty years doing gage calibration might spend an inordinate amount of time looking at your calibration system.

The key is to make sure that your system (A) meets the basic requirements of the standard) and (B) reflects your own company's commitment to quality improvement, regardless of what the standard says. The registrar's auditor isn't an enemy--he's there to verify that your system is what you say it is. If it's not, that's not the auditor's fault.

I'll tell you as a 3rd party auditor, and probably yours, so you better watch out! (Just kidding:lol:)

1. Document control....all aspects of it

2. Competency......very seldom actually defined, documented or evidence of achievement. Lots of training done but that is normally where it stops.

3. Internal audit...more often than not these are not that great to horrible and very sledom move from the top branches of the system down to the roots and into the weeds.

4. Corrective actions......primarily done because it is a must with no real desire in it

5. Preventive actions....sorely misunderstood, underappreciated and horribly mis-applied. A process with so much potential for value thatyou just wanna cry at times.

6. Management committment.......quite possibly one of the greates sources of $%&##$****! there is.You'll know what I mean when you experience it.

7. Customer satisfaction......we see more dis-satisfaction measured than anything else.

That's pretty much it for me. I don't worry about the Product Realization stuff too much because it seems to kind of fall in to place for the most part. I do look at it pretty good, I just don't worry over it.

Also look at 'failure modes (http://elsmar.com/level2/failure.html)'. Although some of these are dated (1994 version) but they are as useful.

Interesting responses and maybe a indicator of how 'off' third party auditors can, but where's the customers' requirements and how they are determined? It occurs to me that the rest of the processes can be fully compliant (and as Randy suggests) customers are still unhappy.........

I'd be looking at the customer interface myself, to see what the organization signed up to do for their customers........