Is it neccessary to produce the internal quality audit checklist? I mean we can use our audit plan or itinerary to stay focus! :thanks:

Show me that "shall" and I'll say YES.

If you can find a "shall" then do what you think best.



That almost rhymes doesn't it?:lol:

If you paint yourself into a corner by stating in your IQA procedure that you will have one, then you better make sure you have it.

........ good for amateurs but not useful for professionals ;)

Internal Audit checklist preferably useful for “New” Internal Auditors, but ISO standards strongly emphasize on Process Approach in auditing and condemn the use of checklist philosophy.

:caution:
In short it is optional and neither compulsory nor required by standards, it all depends upon your circumstances

Internal Audit checklist preferably useful for “New” Internal Auditors, but ISO standards strongly emphasize on Process Approach in auditing and condemn the use of checklist philosophy.

:caution:
In short it is optional and neither compulsory nor required by standards, it all depends upon your circumstances

We'll need to be very careful here. For ISO 9001, the 'CLAUSE BASED' checklist is not encouraged because it is against the process approach that they are promoting. But that doesn't mean that checklist are 'condemned'. Checklist based on your organizations processes (not ISO clauses) are acceptable. This is true of TS also.

No...........!!

I too think we have to be careful here. ISO 9001 does not mention checklists but audits, like other processes, should be effective. If having checklists make the audit more effective then why not use them?

True, more experienced auditors probably need them less but I would not say 'not at all'. One of the advantages I believe checklists bring is that they demonstrate what was planned to be checked and (assuming the notes are good), what was actually found which is a benefit for whoever audits the process next time.

I am more concerned about the style of checklist used. I don't recommend 'standard' ones and they should not be too prescriptive. I advocate a more flexible approach which enables the auditor to collect his/her thoughts before the audit rather than trying to prepare a script to work to.

If you paint yourself into a corner by stating in your IQA procedure that you will have one, then you better make sure you have it.

.........If having checklists make the audit more effective then why not use them?

...... One of the advantages I believe checklists bring is that they demonstrate what was planned to be checked and (assuming the notes are good), what was actually found which is a benefit for whoever audits the process next time.

.......

I completely agree and endorse:agree1:

Preparing and producing an internal audit checklist is not 'necessary' unless of course one's Internal Audit Procedure says so, but there are distinct advantages of planning to conduct the audit by way of checklists.

While planning an audit, and preparing the checklists one also ensures that a complete audit is planned for, that all clauses of the standard are audited for wether clause wise or in a process approach. Otherwise one may miss out on certain clauses e.g. 8.4 Analysis of Data, this clause can easily be left out if not taken into reckoning while planning an audit. And of course, they also demonstrate the effectiveness of the audit process itself.

Checklists may be prepared using a process apporach.

The use of a checklist is much like going to a store/shop - it depends on who's doing the shopping and how complex the shopping task is. If you are the one doing the work and you did the right planning, you might not need much of a list. However, most of us would walk away having forgotten something. For someone not familiar, they might not know what to look for.

So, the answer to this simple but very dangerous question is really "only if you want an effective audit'.......

Let's face it, for most auditors & audit managers, the preparation of checklists is a P-I-T-A task, when, in fact it should be used to 'immerse' the auditor in the process, it's issues, customer requirements etc. so that the culmination is a 'worksheet' which helps the auditor focus their audit on the effectiveness of the process and it's ability to perform for the management and the customer. This will help the audit be much more value added to the auditees, rather than simply sticking to a bunch of unrelated questions, generated off the standard etc.

We tend to adopt checklists for other reasons, however......
:2cents:

The use of a checklist is much like going to a store/shop - it depends on who's doing the shopping and how complex the shopping task is. If you are the one doing the work and you did the right planning, you might not need much of a list. However, most of us would walk away having forgotten something. For someone not familiar, they might not know what to look for.

So, the answer to this simple but very dangerous question is really "only if you want an effective audit'.......

Let's face it, for most auditors & audit managers, the preparation of checklists is a P-I-T-A task, when, in fact it should be used to 'immerse' the auditor in the process, it's issues, customer requirements etc. so that the culmination is a 'worksheet' which helps the auditor focus their audit on the effectiveness of the process and it's ability to perform for the management and the customer. This will help the audit be much more value added to the auditees, rather than simply sticking to a bunch of unrelated questions, generated off the standard etc.

We tend to adopt checklists for other reasons, however......
:2cents:

I think the comparison to a shopping list is a good one; if I have more than four or five items I always make a list, but others might not. Checklists have a tendency to act as limiting factors, and I've seen instances where things were deliberately overlooked because they weren't on the checklist, which would be analogous to me going to the store and realizing after I got there that we needed bread but not buying any because it wasn't on my list.

Checklists might be helpful to novice auditors to guide them through the paces until they're comfortable with what they're doing, but they should never be allowed to act as crutches, and never be considered all-inclusive.