A decision was made by the moderators to de-couple the 'Thanks' mod from the built in Karma (Reputation) system. Before, giving someone 'Thanks' in a post added 5 'points' to Karma.

We are still discussing how we're using both systems, but the point is they are technically 2 different systems. The 'Thanks' button is a 'mod' (a 'hack someone wrote for vBulletin) while the 'Karma' system is a part of vBulletin.

Part of the discussion is that they are different systems, each with its own 'counter', so they should stay separate.

I'm posting this as public notice of the change, AND for discussion of the two systems and the change by regular visitors.

In case you are still unclear what the 'thanks button' or 'Karma System' are about, read the following:

Karma - How do I get karma? How does Karma work? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=12411)
Karma - How to Give Karma and How to See Who Gave You Karma (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9934)

'Thanking' someone for a Post in a Discussion Thread (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=18880)

Scorekeeping doesn't contribute much to the overall mission, which is "People helping People," so if both the "Thanks" and "Karma" things were disattached from cumulative numbers (or disappeared altogether) it wouldn't make much difference to my level of participation, or the relative quality of it.

Scorekeeping doesn't contribute much to the overall mission, which is "People helping People," so if both the "Thanks" and "Karma" things were disattached from cumulative numbers (or disappeared altogether) it wouldn't make much difference to my level of participation, or the relative quality of it.

And from a man who has rightfully accrued his well-deserved portion of both, that perspective is much appreciated, Jim.:yes:

A number of people are still emailing me about not seeing Thanked Posts adding to their 'Karma' (aka Reputation) in their UserCP. This is typical: Hi Marc,

I have a Karma related question that is not addressed in the various threads. My Karma seems to have frozen at 41 in my user CP, with last karma received on the 19th Feb, but according to my profile I have been thanked several times since then. In addition I have thanked others, given karma and referred someone. Is my karma frozen for any particular reason (something I have done wrong that I am unaware of?), or is it just a periodic update? I am keen to build a reputation within the Cove and want to make sure that I understand the mechanics of the system.

Thanks for any guidance you can offer me,

Regards,

Just to remind everyone - The 'Built In' system is the Karma system. The 'Thanks Button' is an add-on 'mod' for vBulletin.

When I do the major vBulletin update, I may eliminate the 'Thanks' mod. What I am considering is making the 'Thanks' button a link to the Karma button.

I'm willing to discuss this, but right now its sorta confusing. The whole idea of the 'Thanks' button was a visible, quick way to thank someone for their post with the post its self showing the people who thanked a person for the post, as well as the total Thanks received and the total Thanks given. The way the Karma system works, only the visitor can only see who gave them 'Karma' in their UserCP (User Control Panel).

As explained above, the 'Thanks' systems *was* linked to the Karma system so when someone gave Thanks, Karma points were added (the number of Karma points added for a 'Thanks' is a number that can be set in the 'mod's' settings).

Note that prior to disconnecting the two, one 'Thanks' added 10 points to a person's Kama.

Discussion?

A number of people are still emailing me about not seeing Thanked Posts adding to their 'Karma' (aka Reputation) in their UserCP. This is typical:

Just to remind everyone - The 'Built In' system is the Karma system. The 'Thanks Button' is an add-on 'mod' for vBulletin.

When I do the major vBulletin update, I may eliminate the 'Thanks' mod. What I am considering is making the 'Thanks' button a link to the Karma button.

I'm willing to discuss this, but right now its sorta confusing. The whole idea of the 'Thanks' button was a visible, quick way to thank someone for their post with the post its self showing the people who thanked a person for the post, as well as the total Thanks received and the total Thanks given. The way the Karma system works, only the visitor can only see who gave them 'Karma' in their UserCP (User Control Panel).

As explained above, the 'Thanks' systems *was* linked to the Karma system so when someone gave Thanks, Karma points were added (the number of Karma points added for a 'Thanks' is a number that can be set in the 'mod's' settings).

Note that prior to disconnecting the two, one 'Thanks' added 10 points to a person's Kama.

Discussion?

Marc,

I liked the way it was before the change.

Marc,

I liked the way it was before the change.

Me too - people often give thanks for a reply, but rarely give Karma - makes it impossible for new Covers to gain any sort of credibility.

Jim

Me too - people often give thanks for a reply, but rarely give Karma - makes it impossible for new Covers to gain any sort of credibility.

Jim

The flip side to that is credibility doesn't mean much when Karma is so easy to get.

Take a look through some of our threads and notice how the "Thanks" button is being used. You will even find thanks given to the original post in a thread. One of my favorites is thanks given to a reply like "Sorry I can't answer your question but I really like your problem". Many people around the world would consider it impolite not to thank someone for replying to a post. I see many threads where every post is thanked with no regard to the usefulness of the answer. This is by no means a measure of credibility. There is no magic number to reach before you are recognized as "giving the right answer".

I am one of those who argue against the Thanks = Karma system. I believe the credibility and reputation of members and contributors should be earned through recognition by forum management. Things like longevity, helpfulness, content of posts and promotion of The Cove should be the drivers of management recognition. Reputation and credibility should be judged by what you contribute. People will read your posts and realize you are to be respected for your contributions. There should be no need here to wear a star saying "Hey, look at me". I don't care if it is your first post or your 5 thousandth. The content of your post will determine your credibility in my eyes.

Dave

Take a look through some of our threads and notice how the "Thanks" button is being used. You will even find thanks given to the original post in a thread. One of my favorites is thanks given to a reply like "Sorry I can't answer your question but I really like your problem". Many people around the world would consider it impolite not to thank someone for replying to a post. I see many threads where every post is thanked with no regard to the usefulness of the answer. This is by no means a measure of credibility. There is no magic number to reach before you are recognized as "giving the right answer".

I guess this is just like so many of the quality problems we face from day-to-day: if people don't use the tool properly, do we blame the tool, do we try to educate the people, or do we try to make the tool foolproof. The trouble with fool-proofing it that it drives fools to become even more ingenious! What is to stop people from giving Karma for the use of a pretty font or a "don't know" reply........

Things like longevity, helpfulness, content of posts and promotion of The Cove should be the drivers of management recognition. Reputation and credibility should be judged by what you contribute. People will read your posts and realize you are to be respected for your contributions.

I have used karma as an indicator of the level of "trust" I can put on a reply that is outside of my expertise, as I would find it presumptuous to judge the content or accuracy of a response outside of my subject area. After all, that is why I joined the Cove - to learn, and, where I can, to give something back.

Hopefully over time I will be able to better judge those whose credentials are based on deep domain expertise, or those who have been thanked for asking a question. Until then I will have to rely on karma and keep my fingers crossed.

Jim

The content of your post will determine your credibility in my eyes.


That's all that really matters. :agree1: The Karma and Thanks counters shouldn't be relied upon as indicators of the overall quality of anyone's contributions.

That's all that really matters. :agree1: The Karma and Thanks counters shouldn't be relied upon as indicators of the overall quality of anyone's contributions.

Very true! And a "pat on the back" is welcomed by most I believe.

Stijloor.

Now... in the end, the decision is certainly Marc's to make. Too, as he has pointed out, versions of the software may too dictate what is linked to the "thanks" button.

Since Marc invited us to, I thought at least each Cover should be able to voice their feelings.

NOTE: I did not make this a public poll, so no one should know how you vote.

I think that the "Thanks' and 'give Karma' help to communicate the community of the cove. Since this is a site where people are here to help each other, community is an important aspect. Giving 'Thanks' is just a pat on the back for that well thought out comment or witty response. That being said if the 'Thanks' results in a minor increase in karma I guess I'd be all for it. People like to give thanks, people should be giving thanks, and if this encourages people to give thanks then it's something to be encouraged! If the old system was 10 pts. per thanks and people think it will dilute the roles, then address it. Say, 1 point for giving thanks, and 3-5 points for receiving it. That way if someone Karma looks inflated (Ooohh! Scary!:sarcasm:) you know it by the inordinate amount of thanks on their profile.
As far as Karma goes, I think that's a different matter. I don't believe most people even use karma and AS part of that sense of community I believe everyone should be getting more. You pose that question, and 3 or 4 or 5 or 27 people give you answers that help you out in your job, or saves your butt, just as if they were some kind of slow, outside consultant, you should be giving Karma not thanks. The thing is, is that the 'Thanks' button is so prominant and the Karma button is only that little symbol in the corner for those who know what it means. Perhaps the 'Thanks' button could be wired in to the Karma button so that everytime you gave thanks, you would have the opportunity to give karma or not. It would be rare anyway to wanna give Karma without giving 'Thanks'. That's my take on it.
I've just finished my 1st year as a paid Premium Member in the Cove. As long as I'm in Quality, I'll never go back, and who knows, even if I leave quality I might stay here. My thanks to Marc and this forum, all of its members and Mods for the great answers, topics, learning opportunities and friendly, lively discussion over the past 12 months. You Gals & Guys have been great. If I could figure out how to give you all Karma I would. I will definitely be paying much more attention to it when I say thanks.

Briz

Brizilla,
Your post deserves a thanks! :applause:

Stijloor.

Admittedly, I miss the thanks counter. Not to inflate my ego, but it is a good guide to what people have found to be adequate or helpful answers. As it is now I feel a little lost because there is no indication of what posts have been appreciated and what posts have not.

Admittedly, I miss the thanks counter. Not to inflate my ego, but it is a good guide to what people have found to be adequate or helpful answers. As it is now I feel a little lost because there is no indication of what posts have been appreciated and what posts have not.

Go to your own 'public profile' and click on 'find all thanked post by (you)'. All the thanked post are listed there. Of course, these infos are not that readily available as previously.

Admittedly, I miss the thanks counter. Not to inflate my ego, but it is a good guide to what people have found to be adequate or helpful answers. As it is now I feel a little lost because there is no indication of what posts have been appreciated and what posts have not.

http://elsmar.com/gif/Thanks given in post_a.gif

http://elsmar.com/gif/Thanks given in post-b.gif

Marc,

Yes, this says about "Thanks Given to others" but what about "Thanks Given By Others"

Apart from the numbers highlighted in your post, is it possible to see which person Thanked as was seeen very clearly before ?

Marc,

Yes, this says about "Thanks Given to others" but what about "Thanks Given By Others"

Apart from the numbers highlighted in your post, is it possible to see which person Thanked as was seeen very clearly before ?

It doesn't use the word 'by', but look where it says "Thanked <number> Times in <number> Posts"

You can also find every post you made that someone thanked you for --> UserCP --> "Find All Thanked Posts by <your name>"

Its a lot like Karma, but it doesn't assign a complex computed value to each 'Thanks'. A 'Thanks' is a Thanks, so it's a one-for one situation.

http://elsmar.com/gif/Thanks given in post_-b1.gif

http://elsmar.com/gif/Thanks given in post-a1.gif

I believe he's referring to the section under user CP where you would normally have a list of 50 or so lines that show what post you were thanked on and by whom. It was a nice feature that no longer seems to actively update.

I believe he's referring to the section under user CP where you would normally have a list of 50 or so lines that show what post you were thanked on and by whom. It was a nice feature that no longer seems to actively update.Yes. That is correct. When we had it set to give 10 points of Karma each time someone gave Thanks, it updated the Karma 'log' in the userCP because it was adding to Karma making it a Karma 'event' (as far as the software and the database are concerned).

Hey.... look what I dug up from the Cove Archives!!:lmao:

This is what happens when you worry too much about your # of thanks, Karma, reputation, # of posts, more Karma......

You gotta click on it!!

Hey.... look what I dug up from the Cove Archives!!:lmao:

This is what happens when you worry too much about your # of thanks, Karma, reputation, # of posts, more Karma......

You gotta click on it!!

Wow, I vaguely remember posting that. When was that, about 5 years ago? :notme:

Here is the 'Latest' on Karma and the Green Dots:

http://elsmar.com/png/vBuletin Reputation - Karma dots_600.png

NOTES:
Reputation = Karma
Negative Karma (aka Reputation) is disabled on this forum.

Karma FAQ (http://elsmar.com/Forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_user_profile#faq_vb3_reputation) updated.

I am going to use my first post to say thanks. I have read some extremely interesting posts for the last three or so hours in this forum on everything like lean manufacturing, process mapping, QMS, 5S (we added a S for Safety) and Standard Work. We utilize all these things and then some at my work.

I do engineering document control in a manufacturing company and was just assigned to the engineering team to get our processes "robust" for ACE Silver assessment. I just hope I don't forget how to get back here....I will need help, I am just not sure what help I will need yet.

:thanx: again for the great information.
Inge

I am going to use my first post to say thanks. I have read some extremely interesting posts for the last three or so hours in this forum on everything like lean manufacturing, process mapping, QMS, 5S (we added a S for Safety) and Standard Work. We utilize all these things and then some at my work.

I do engineering document control in a manufacturing company and was just assigned to the engineering team to get our processes "robust" for ACE Silver assessment. I just hope I don't forget how to get back here....I will need help, I am just not sure what help I will need yet.

:thanx: again for the great information.
Inge

Welcome, Inge. :bigwave: This place is the best resource in the world for general information on quality in business and manufacturing, and there are always knowledgeable people here who are eager to help. As far as finding your way back is concerned, just bookmark the site. If you're using Internet Explorer, click on the "Favorites" button on the top of the screen and then "Add to Favorites." Using Firefox, it's the same procedure only it's called "Bookmarks." And of course, you can always Google your way back here.

I'm posting this because of a number of complaints.

A while back the super moderators discussed Karma and Thanks (actually there are several threads in the Super Moderators forum on the subject). At one time they were linked - If someone Thanked you, you got 5 Karma points (number of points is a variable setting). OTOH, Giving Karma did not affect the number of 'Thanks'. The decision to decouple them was made by majority.

As most of you should know from the 'Notice' I'm in Fulton, NY this week. I'm real busy so I don't have time to go into details right now. I'll try to this weekend if one or more of the moderators doesn't jump in and explain. Unfortunately I think all the discussions were in threads in the super moderator's forum.

If you want it changed back, you better speak up now so a consensus can be reached.

Oops - Gotta go. People are coming back from a break...

Marc's post is copied from another thread.

I have opened the poll up for those wanting to vote on this.

From memory....

It was uncoupled with the hopes that if someone wanted to give someone real Kudos, they would use the Karma button. Karma allows for an explanation, thus possibly strengthening the value of the kudo.

The thanks button is there to serve the useful purpose of a quick, thanks, I agree, nice post, etc. That way, one can feel a little more free to give a thanks, without seeming like you're giving every living thing more Karma.

That pretty well sums it up. The old setting was 5 Karma points per Thanks. Note that eveyone starts out with 10 Karma points.

And my Thanks to Brad for finding and resurrecting this thread.

Just curious..

What is the difference between 'karma' and 'karma power'?

Just curious..

What is the difference between 'karma' and 'karma power'?In simple terms, Karma Power is the number of points you award others when you give them Karma. These points get added to that person's Karma (reputation score). So your Karma is the points you have accumulated. You can check this through your UserCP. As you post more and recieve more Karma, your Karma power also goes up (there is a formula that calculates your karma power).

I know this has been a long ongoing thing, but I see it this way. "Thanks" is part of life in a quality career. It is something we should be doing every day, as a constant reminder that our team is not made up of one, but many, who are all working together to achieve a goal.
"Karma" - does not relate well to me, or in the same way as a "Thank you". I don't see the "quality" connection, it is more of a "persona" thing.

I know this has been a long ongoing thing, but I see it this way. "Thanks" is part of life in a quality career. It is something we should be doing every day, as a constant reminder that our team is not made up of one, but many, who are all working together to achieve a goal.
"Karma" - does not relate well to me, or in the same way as a "Thank you". I don't see the "quality" connection, it is more of a "persona" thing.

Valid points.

My main objection to connecting the Thanks button to Karma is simply -

People use the Thanks button to say "Thanks", not "I think your answer is good (or useful)".

Look at a typical thread started by a newbie asking a question. In many threads (almost all threads started by by posters outside the US) you will find a "Thanks" on virtually every post in the thread. You will see a post with no response other than "Welcome to the Cove" to which the OP has politely said "Thanks".

If we use the Thanks Button to determine, in any way, the professional credibility or knowledge of the people here we are kidding ourselves. I also think the number of times a person has been thanked and the number of times a person has thanked someone is completely irrelevant.

A word about Karma while I am on the soap box. There is a complex formula behind the Karma calculation and I am sure it has been well thought out and serves some purpose unknown to us mortals. I have turned off my Karma because I passionately disagree with the concept of "Karma Power". For those who haven't been listening, "Karma Power" is the value added when an individual gives you Karma. My problem with the system is simply a "sour grapes" argument that my opinion of your post and the value applied for me saying so should be the same as the next guy's.

Why should John Doe's (there is no John Doe here to my knowledge) Karma carry more weight than mine or anyone else's? We are setting up the false impression that the higher the Karma Power and the more Karma you have, the more knowledgeable and credible you are.

As for my opinion, I think "Thanks" and "Karma" are a distraction from the concept of The Cove. They become narcissistic flags to wave so everybody can see how wonderful you are. The idea of The Cove is to meet here as equals in the quality profession, share ideas, help each other, and make friends we can relate to. Every poster should be treated equally whether they be new or a founding member. I see no room for ego inflating in this forum. Next thing you know we will be nominating posts for "Oscars" for a "Post of the Month" award.

BTW, I voted NO on the poll.

Dave

My main objection to connecting the Thanks button to Karma is simply -

People use the Thanks button to say "Thanks", not "I think your answer is good (or useful)".

Look at a typical thread started by a newbie asking a question. In many threads (almost all threads started by by posters outside the US) you will find a "Thanks" on virtually every post in the thread. You will see a post with no response other than "Welcome to the Cove" to which the OP has politely said "Thanks".

If we use the Thanks Button to determine, in any way, the professional credibility or knowledge of the people here we are kidding ourselves. I also think the number of times a person has been thanked and the number of times a person has thanked someone is completely irrelevant.

A word about Karma while I am on the soap box. There is a complex formula behind the Karma calculation and I am sure it has been well thought out and serves some purpose unknown to us mortals. I have turned off my Karma because I passionately disagree with the concept of "Karma Power". For those who haven't been listening, "Karma Power" is the value added when an individual gives you Karma. My problem with the system is simply a "sour grapes" argument that my opinion of your post and the value applied for me saying so should be the same as the next guy's.

Why should John Doe's (there is no John Doe here to my knowledge) Karma carry more weight than mine or anyone else's? We are setting up the false impression that the higher the Karma Power and the more Karma you have, the more knowledgeable and credible you are.

As for my opinion, I think "Thanks" and "Karma" are a distraction from the concept of The Cove. They become narcissistic flags to wave so everybody can see how wonderful you are. The idea of The Cove is to meet here as equals in the quality profession, share ideas, help each other, and make friends we can relate to. Every poster should be treated equally whether they be new or a founding member. I see no room for ego inflating in this forum. Next thing you know we will be nominating posts for "Oscars" for a "Post of the Month" award.

BTW, I voted NO on the poll.

Dave

Well said. I nominate this for Post of the Month honors. :biglaugh:

I agree with the fact that people simply thank others for replying, and as was pointed out, it is prevalent among newbies, but I still cannot connect "Karma" with competence. I will thank someone who I think has posted a valuable answer or post, just like 'real life'. I have difficulty associating "Karma" with "competence", or even "usefulness". Maybe it is just my Western upbringing. It sounds like a rating system is more what you are after, or a poll showing "best post answer". (See LinkedIn "Best Answer" system for how this works.) I freely admit it boils down to my interpretation of what "Karma" is to me, and I think this reflects the feelings of many members as well.

Well said. I nominate this for Post of the Month honors. :biglaugh:

Soo.... would you be giving him a "thanks" or Karma??:tg::lmao:

.........
BTW, I voted NO on the poll.
DaveThere are only 2 'NO' votes as of now. The other is mine. I voted NO for more or less the same reasons as Dave.

I do not connect the validity or value of any post by Karma or Thanks. I see them only as someone expressing appreciation for an attempt at helping. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not now, nor have I ever, associated either 'Thanks' or Karma with the professional credibility or knowledge of a poster. I really don't think many people do.

There is no way in this forum to assess the credibility of any poster other than to make a personal judgment by looking at that users posts in general and in contrast to answers others give. Even then, it's a 'best guess'. If anyone is using Karma or Thanks to assess the validity of someones posts, my opinion is they are using a false guide.

I put in the 'Thanks' mod because I believe people like to know that others do appreciate their help. I could disable both 'Thanks' and Karma. From a world view, we could also eliminate any recognition of someone trying to help someone else if we look at it from a 'sour grapes' view. If someone helps me out, why send a card, or buy them a dinner, or even say thanks? And if someone does tell me thanks, what does that have to do with my professional credibility or knowledge?

As to the Karma formula, is it so bad to give a person credit for the length of time they have been visiting and related factors? Are the clubs like the Lions Club wrong to give out recognition certificates or other acknowledgment to those who have been in the club for years helping people out? Should clubs like that give equal weight to someone who joined last year vs. someone who has been involved for 20 years or more? Can we put in a 'sour grapes' argument in regard to such recognition? Sure we can. Just because someone has been around for 20 years helping out they're no better than the guy who just joined, is he? I think the 'Better Than' argument is irrelevant. I don't think that 'better than' is part of it.

Taken to the extreme, we could easily extrapolate that to the world. No one should thank anyone for anything, because if they do it is nothing more than a 'flag they can wave' in others faces, and it is a contest. There should be no recognition of appreciation for anything.

My view of both Karma and Thanks is simply that they are indicators of people expressing appreciation, unrelated to professional credibility or knowledge. They are no more than 'Thank You' notes people send when they appreciate something someone did for them. In my opinion, reading anything more into Karma and Thanks is silly. If we cannot share ideas, help each other, and make friends AND tell others Thank You! now and again, I cannot even conceive of what it would be like - Here or anywhere. It's not a contest. If you do a kindness for someone and they say Thank You, does that make it a contest and therefore bad in some way?

As a last comment, I have not seen anyone 'waving a flag' or in any way 'advertising' their Karma or number of Thanks. I do think some (many) people are proud of their Karma and/or Thanks. Some people (my self included) do like recognition from time to time for things they do. In my eyes, that doesn't mean we're in a contest. When I see someone with a high Thanks count, for example, I do see it as an indicator that many people appreciate a person. I do not think that is bad. We do share ideas, help each other, and make friends here. I don't believe that Thanks or Karma in any way impedes what we do here. I personally believe that Karma and Thanks are also incentives for people to come back and to help and interact more. People do tend to help more when they feel their efforts are appreciated, and I do not think that is a bad thing.

What we need right now is an LOLCat.

Friends,

"I can live for two months on a good compliment." --- Mark Twain

Marc-

Very well said!!

Actually, Karma (http://graphics.cs.columbia.edu/projects/karma/karma.html) is nothing more than- Knowledge-based Augmented Reality for Maintenance Assistance!:lmao:

And here I thought Karma was just a measure of how much time you spend online over the course of the day!

I think the point is moot, no one (I hope) gives any weight to an individual's response based on how many dots they have under their name. At best the Karma system allows users to easily identify people who are regular posters and common contributors to the forums' diverse knowledge base. A badge by a name that says you've made a long term effort to contribute here is by no means a negative system in my view. I think those folks deserve some kind of recognition for their efforts and Karma is a simple enough and harmless enough system for delivering that recognition.:2cents:

Marc,

Thanks for your entire post. I started quoting from it to highlight all the parts I agreed with, and then found it was all of them. So just, thank you for expressing it so well, and I agree with you fully.

What we need right now is an LOLCat.

:lmao:

I hope you've submitted this as an improvement suggestion to the forum software developers!

The largest (and consistent) complaint has been that people do not see Thanks in their Karma list as they used to. I have thought about this quite a bit. I have decided to reestablish the Thanks link to Karma based upon the poll. Part of my consideration goes to the the reason this was an issue in years past when, for a while, there were a few users who tended to 'give each other a pat on the back' in a tag team fashion. I think that attitude is past.

I then considered the amount of Karma for each Thanks. The old value was 5 Karma 'points' per 'Thanks'. Considering the Karma spread between users, I set the Thanks to generate 2 Karma points because a lot of Thanks are accumulated vs. actual Karma given.

Further discussion?

I'd also suggest make the Karma button more visible...instead of the yinyang have a gif that contains plain text, like "Give Karma".

It would be difficult to do. I'll look into it again, but that involves some template edits which could affect some 'hook' functions.

I see. I thought you could simply replace the gif file by another one with same name!

I could probably do that. I was thinking of moving it, or duplicating it next to the Thanks button. Let me see what I can come up with.

Also see: Karma - How to Give Karma (aka Reputation) and How to See Who Gave You Karma (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9934)

I see. I thought you could simply replace the gif file by another one with same name!

Good suggestion - the Karma looks colorful now :)

I could probably do that. I was thinking of moving it, or duplicating it next to the Thanks button. Let me see what I can come up with.

Hey - good solution.

Can you also make it play 'Karma, Karma, Chameleon' when clicked ? :D

Can you also make it play 'Karma, Karma, Chameleon' when clicked ? :D

Karma Chameleon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_Chameleon). :D

The singer Boy George (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_George) experienced an interesting "career change (http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2006/06/27/boy-george-sanitation.html)" some years ago.

Stijloor.