I've always wanted to know what poor grammar etc. in posts people find annoying. There are many, I'm sure, and notwithstanding posters for whom English is a second language, what are yours?

Here's few to get started (don't get me started);)

Here - hear
There - their - they're
Your - you're
Do - due (is this an exclusively US thing?):notme:

Now you........

I've always wanted to know what poor grammar etc. in posts people find annoying. There are many, I'm sure, and notwithstanding posters for whom English is a second language, what are yours?

Here's few to get started (don't get me started);)

Here - hear
There - their - they're
Your - you're
Do - due (is this an exclusively US thing?):notme:

Now you........

Its - it's
Subject and verb not agreeing is another one of mine.

And it isn't just in posts here, but these things bother me anywhere I see them.

It's not grammar per se. Posts written similar to a text message, no caps, virtually no punctuation, irritate me to no end....

Stijloor.

For those having problems with grammar, you might want to consults "Trigg's Rules of Grammar". ;)


1. Make sure each pronoun agrees with their antecedent.

2. Just between you and I, the case of pronoun is important.

3. Watch out for irregular verbs which have crope into English.

4. Verbs has to agree in number with their subjects.

5. Don't use no double negatives.

6. Being bad grammar, a writer should not use dangling modifiers.

7. Join clauses good like a conjunction should.

8. A writer must not shift your point of view.

9. About sentence fragments.

10. Don't use run-on sentences you got to punctuate them.

11. In letters essays and reports use commas to separate items in series.

12. Don't use commas, which are not necessary.

13. Parenthetical words however should be enclosed in commas.

14. Its important to use apostrophes right in everybodys writing.

15. Don't abbrev.

16. Check to see if you any words out.

17. In the case of a report, check to see that jargonwise, it's A-OK.

18. As far as incomplete constructions, they are wrong.

19. About repetition, the repetition of a word
might be real effective repetition - take, for
instance the repetition of Abraham Lincoln.

20. In my opinion, I think that an author when he
is writing should definitely not get into the
habit of making use of too many unnecessary words
that he does not really need in order to put his
message across.

21. Use parallel construction not only to be concise but also clarify.

22. It behooves us all to avoid archaic expressions.

23. Mixed metaphors are a pain in the neck and ought to be weeded out.

24. Consult the dictionery to avoid mispelings.

25. To ignorantly split an infinitive is a practice to religiously avoid.

26. Last but not least, lay off clichés.

(Please note that each of these contains the grammatical or stylistic error that they are addressing! ;) )

It's not grammar per se. Posts written similar to a text message, no caps, virtually no punctuation, irritate me to no end....

Stijloor.

y doz dis bother u :notme::notme::mg:

For those having problems with grammar, you might want to consults "Trigg's Rules of Grammar".



2. Just between you and I, the case of pronoun is important.

.

Are you sure? English is my 2nd language, I often get confused with this rule, between you and me?

i been on teh intarnets long enuf now dat nuthin bothers me.

in fact, one board I was on for a long time it was proper to use:
yuo
your and you're interchangeably
teh

I = L33t hax0r.
yuo = PWNED!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
werd

Not all are grammar errors, but here are a few bits of sand in my craw:

Unnecessary "quotation" marks (http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/)
Misplaced apostrophes (http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/) (I'm eating taco's for lunch today.)
Misplaced modifiers (The sandwich is on the table that my wife made for lunch.)
Misuse of "literally" (George got angry and he literally went through the roof!)
Botched metaphors ("Tow the line" instead of "Toe...")

Are you sure? English is my 2nd language, I often get confused with this rule, between you and me?The point of the post was that ALL the so-called rules were botched within the item. You are absolutely correct about the objective case "me" being correct, but missed the subtlety of the sarcasm intended, much as the other posts with deliberate errors were intended for humorous effect.

Perhaps the original post by Tim needs a few smileys thrown in to emphasize the rules are bogus.

I nearly cracked a rib laughing at Tim's post!:lmao:

Perhaps the original post by Tim needs a few smileys thrown in to emphasize the rules are bogus.Maybe so... I felt the passion start to rise with #2. The thing is, the rules seem to be getting rewritten beneath my feet. Frequently I learn that according to some dictionary, this-or-that abomination is supposed to have become acceptable. Or, it will be defended: "But it's in Webster's!" :rolleyes:

I have a Dibert cartoon with Anne L. Retentive blown up and prominently displayed in my office. ("You killed Anne L. Retentive with a typo?" "No, she's in a comma") It helps keep me in line and lets visitors know I am trying to do that.

Wow, I just remembered one - "off of" - when from is all that's needed.

Totally redundant!

I nearly cracked a rib laughing at Tim's post!:lmao:Nothing trite about that phrase, is there?;)

y doz dis bother u :notme::notme::mg:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.

Can't be a very good university or thorough research - I still read wrod as wrod..........like 'rod'.
:notme:

I've always wanted to know what poor grammar etc. in posts people find annoying. None. This is the internet in 2008. I'm almost 60 years old and as long as I can type in what I want I can tolerate what others type in. Not to mention English is not the 'first' language a lot of people who post here.

i been on teh intarnets long enuf now dat nuthin bothers me.

in fact, one board I was on for a long time it was proper to use:
yuo
your and you're interchangeably
teh

I = L33t hax0r.
yuo = PWNED!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
werd :lmao:

The thing is, the rules seem to be getting rewritten beneath my feet. That's why I loved English Lit - Reading Shakespeare, Descartes, and other texts from long ago are, well, interesting to see how languages change over the years. Languages are just changing faster now... But it doesn't bother me a bit. That's not to say I want to try to keep up with all the new 'abbreviations'. I'm not even into 'text messaging' yet...

y doz dis bother u :notme::notme::mg:

That stuff (cr@p) I was referring to is called Text Speak or SMS Language SMS_language. It's creeping into The Cove Forums.

I also I noticed posts in which the writer's shift key got stuck or could not be located....

Does decent writing and a commitment to quality go together?

Just my two cents.

Stijloor.

None of my Grammers was bad, they was sweet old ladies.:lol:

I used to be very picky on grammar but after coming to China, I have totally forgotten grammar. :notme:

But capital letters irritate me all times :mad:

the thing is, sometimes it is not the users fault, I have been on so many computers that can't spill ;)

We need to keep in mind that this is an international forum, and that not all participants will be as perfect as we are.
I deal with companies from Sweden and China, the communications I receive from them do not have perfect grammar. I am sure if I tried to communicate in their language, my grammar would be very poor.

Phil

We need to keep in mind that this is an international forum, and that not all participants will be as perfect as we are.
I deal with companies from Sweden and China, the communications I receive from them do not have perfect grammar. I am sure if I tried to communicate in their language, my grammar would be very poor.

Phil

I don't think anyone is complaining about people for whom English is not native. I have a lot of respect and admiration for folks who visit here from non-English-speaking countries and are able to communicate as well as well as they do.

This is, however, an important subject for those who should know better but don't. It's not just a matter of pedantry; I deal with unintelligible written stuff on a regular basis that was written by college-educated native speakers. Untold amounts of time and effort are misspent because of poor written communication.

This thread has been quite entertaining. I can ignore, or forgive, bad grammar in most things. But, I absolutey hate getting form letters from my boys' high school teachers with horrible grammar. Especially English teachers. Maybe I should scan in the one DS#2 brought home last night? It makes my skin crawl that this is the quality of our teaching staff.:mad::(

I'm not sure if it is just because I am getting older, but I seem to notice more mispelling among professionals and in magazines and newspapers now. Personally, my pet peeve is with 'affect' and 'effect', which I see used interchangably almost everywhere... On the other hand, I believe our grammatic prowess (?) is declining for various reasons..

This thread has been quite entertaining. I can ignore, or forgive, bad grammar in most things. But, I absolutey hate getting form letters from my boys' high school teachers with horrible grammar. Especially English teachers. Maybe I should scan in the one DS#2 brought home last night? It makes my skin crawl that this is the quality of our teaching staff.:mad::(

I know of someone who is a retired ENGLISH teacher and his spelling is atrocious! :mg: However, he doesn't mind correcting someone else's grammar when in conversation. :tg:

Obviously the thing that annoys me most is misspelling:
Color instead of colour
Favorite instead of favourite
humor instead of humour
Etc.

I mean who invented this language?

P.S. We are, however, very grateful that all the other nations speak our language so they can trade with you! :lol:

Obviously the thing that annoys me most is misspelling:
Color instead of colour
Favorite instead of favourite
humor instead of humour
Etc.

I mean who invented this language?

P.S. We are, however, very grateful that all the other nations speak our language so they can trade with you! :lol:

Paul,

At least y'all put some "u" into it.....:D

Stijloor.

We need to keep in mind that this is an international forum, and that not all participants will be as perfect as we are.
I deal with companies from Sweden and China, the communications I receive from them do not have perfect grammar. I am sure if I tried to communicate in their language, my grammar would be very poor.

Phil

...Not to mention English is not the 'first' language a lot of people who post here.



Those are very good points. And... that is why it is good for people to put where they are from in their profile. Too, many times I can tell when an ESL poster is having trouble with proper word usage, correct phrases, etc. That is OK, and we can work together on that.

To note- we have several regulars (and moderators) who are ESL and work really hard on their posts and have very nice written messages. :yes:

Too, a little more latitude is in order, in that at least in my setup there is no spell-checker.

Posts that do not have any proofreading drive me insane. Notice I did not say an incorrect word/spelling here and there. It's that individuals don't take the time to look at their work. Does it make sense? Did I say that correctly? Can I make that more clear?

Individuals don't have to pay a thing for free advice. Those offering the advice are doing it for free. I would think out of nothing but courtesy, posts would be read over and typed correctly.:)

Obviously the thing that annoys me most is misspelling:
Color instead of colour
Favorite instead of favourite
humor instead of humour
Etc.

I mean who invented this language?

P.S. We are, however, very grateful that all the other nations speak our language so they can trade with you! :lol:

Wow, you raised my favourite topic - Spelling differences between American and British English (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm).

Very interesting ;)

Wow, you raised my favourite topic - Spelling differences between American and British English (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm).

Very interesting ;)Well try this one, a very satisfactory middle ground, if I do say so myself!
Cornerstone's Canadian English Page (http://www.cornerstoneword.com/misc/cdneng/cdneng.htm)

I saved this article from years past; I don't remember the date; but I did save the author. I had to enlarge, print, and scan, so some quality is lost. But short and enjoyable, at least to me.

Wow, you raised my favourite topic - Spelling differences between American and British English (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm).

Very interesting ;)

A quote from the link:

"So what does tall his mean for learners of English?"

Just who the heck is this "tall his" guy?

:notme::biglaugh:

A quote from the link:

"So what does tall his mean for learners of English?"

Just who the heck is this "tall his" guy?

:notme::biglaugh:

Craig, looks like you proof read this :)

Probably its a typo error for "So what does all this mean for learners of English?"

Craig, looks like you proof read this :)

Probably its a typo error for "So what does all this mean for learners of English?"

Oh. I thought the rules may be different for the short hers... :sarcasm:

:rolleyes:

Obviously the thing that annoys me most is misspelling:
Color instead of colour
Favorite instead of favourite
humor instead of humour
Etc.

I mean who invented this language?

P.S. We are, however, very grateful that all the other nations speak our language so they can trade with you! :lol:

I think the Romans and Germans created a good portion of it, along with the French and Greeks here and there.

And Paul.........I spend a horrible amout of time changing the work I do from "The Queens English" into something that could be understood in Queens (NY):lol:

I spend a horrible amout of time changing the work I do from "The Queens English" into something that could be understood in Queens (NY):lol:

I spend a horrible amount of time changing from American English to Southern Redneck Hip-Hop Gangsta High School Rap so that I can talk to my baby Gs, Foo.

I spend a horrible amount of time changing from American English to Southern Redneck Hip-Hop Gangsta High School Rap so that I can talk to my baby Gs, Foo.

Don't even get me started on that, 'cause I can hang with the best in the hood there homey.....:lol:

And Paul.........I spend a horrible amout of time changing the work I do from "The Queens English" into something that could be understood in Queens (NY):lol:

That's "Queen's English." :notme::tg:

It reminds me of an old (attributed) Will Rogers story, and his response when someone criticized him (during the Depression) for using "ain't" too much:
"I've noticed that a lot of people who ain't usin' ain't ain't eatin'."

Obviously the thing that annoys me most is misspelling:

Color instead of colour
Favorite instead of favourite
humor instead of humour
Etc.I mean who invented this language?

P.S. We are, however, very grateful that all the other nations speak our language so they can trade with you! :lol:

:notme::notme:

Yeah - where did they come up with this ....

knife

;)

時はいつも急ぎ足で笑う
思い出より求めた今を見つけよ
الوقت تتحرّك بسرعة و تتضحك
اما الان يلا نبحث عن الحق، الست ذاكرات

The poor grammar posts that annoy me most are my own. I don't get too annoyed if Johnny B. Good can't write above a 4th grade level...it's when I make errors that I get annoyed.

Sentences that are unpleasant to read annoy me somewhat. For instance someone asked me this question today in an email.

"Where is that that you were at?"

時はいつも急ぎ足で笑う
思い出より求めた今を見つけよ
الوقت تتحرّك بسرعة و تتضحك
اما الان يلا نبحث عن الحق، الست ذاكرات

The poor grammar posts that annoy me most are my own. I don't get too annoyed if Johnny B. Good can't write above a 4th grade level...it's when I make errors that I get annoyed.
Sentences that are unpleasant to read annoy me somewhat. For instance someone asked me this question today in an email.

"Where is that that you were at?"

Yes, Benjamin, I have to agree on this. :mad: It really irks me when I realize it's too late to correct it, too! It really embarrasses me. :o But, I am human and do make mistakes. :rolleyes:

:notme::notme:

Yeah - where did they come up with this ....

knife

;)

I recall a high school English teacher of mine demonstrating that the formation "ghoti" could be pronounced "fish" using standard pronunciations from other words:
GH = F as in "rough"
O = I as in "women"
TI = SH as in "nation."

English makes no sense mostly because of its* multiple roots.

* Not "it's" :mad:

Friends,

For real or not (Adobe Photoshop can do magic..), this is one of my favorites (http://cdn.davesdaily.com/pictures/477-badspelling.jpg)!

Stijloor.

Wow, you raised my favourite topic - Spelling differences between American and British English (http://www2.gsu.edu/%7Ewwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm).

Very interesting ;)

Most of the differences we see today--especially the absence of the "u" in words like "color" and "favor" were brought about by Noah Webster in his early dictionaries. He deliberately changed the spelling of many words so as to "Americanize" the language and make it distinct from British English. Other differences, such as in definitions and usage, came about more naturally as a result of regional (dialectical) evolution of the language. Those differences are seen in things such as:
British: vest
American: undershirt

British: waistcoat
American: vest

British: lift
American: elevator

British: lead
American: leash

British: trolley
American: shopping cart

British: pram
American: stroller (or baby carriage).

All of this led to the observation variously attributed to George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde and Winston Churchill: "England and America are two nations separated by a common language."

Friends,

Many of our Fellow Covers work in the automotive industry.

Here is an American/English glossary (http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/brit-yank.htm) of automotive terms.

Stijloor.

All of this led to the observation variously attributed to George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde and Winston Churchill: "England and America are two nations separated by a common language."

Interesting sentence :D

Friends,

Many of our Fellow Covers work in the automotive industry.

Here is an American/English glossary (http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/brit-yank.htm) of automotive terms.

Stijloor.

That's an interesting list, and helpful for things like setscrew=grub screw. There are many errors and non-differences, however, such as misses/misfires (although the former is more common in the US, the latter may also be used without fear of confusion), stumbles/hesitates (I've never heard the former in reference to anything a car might do), frozen/seized (the latter is characterized as British, but is frequently used in the US, often with the addition of "up") and VOM/multimeter (just a few days ago someone asked me if I had a multimeter).

Thanks for those examples, Jim. As a Brit living in the USA for some 16 years, I'm constantly amazed at how much even those (typical) definitions that you've listed can vary across the country. Apart from some obvious differences, the others aren't always 'true'.

I've concluded that it all depends on where people learned word usage. My sons, for example, have lived in this country most of their lives (17 and 19 years) and they tend to use terminology they've heard from me (especially since they were homeschooled).

A quick look at the Automotive terms also indicates to me that while somewhat accurate, there are a number of terms that my Dad used which aren't 'English' - but then he did hang around with a bunch of American service men.......y'know "overpaid, oversexed and over here......"

British: trolley
American: shopping cart

Dixie: Buggy

British: trolley
American: shopping cart

Dixie: Buggy

You're right. There are lots of differences in American English in different regions. Being from NC myself, I know that what's put in the buggy downt the stower winds up in a poke. And you curry it home in a autoMObile (or a core). :lol:

You're right. There are lots of differences in American English in different regions. Being from NC myself, I know that what's put in the buggy downt the stower winds up in a poke. And you curry it home in a autoMObile (or a core). :lol:

Well, while we're at it.."How to Speak Southern (http://www.gagirl.com/southern/south.html)." :D

Stijloor.

Interesting word games from BRITISH COUNCIL (http://www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish-central-word-games-archive.htm)

Different types of English viz. UK, American, Australian, Indian, Canadian, Jamaican, New Zealand, Pakistan,

British: trolley
American: shopping cart

Dixie: Buggy


Inner city: Mobile home:lol:

Inner city: Mobile home:lol:
Mobile home = tornado magnet:rolleyes:

It is true we have a peculiar use of language - my favourite (sic) is the pronunciation of "ough" - see here (http://www.fun-with-english.co.uk/2005/03/importance-of-correct-pronunciation.html)and reproduced below:

22. A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed.

(This sentence contains every pronunciation of "ough", which can be pronounced in nine different ways. I do hope you're having fun with English.)

It is true we have a peculiar use of language - my favourite (sic) is the pronunciation of "ough" - see here (http://www.fun-with-english.co.uk/2005/03/importance-of-correct-pronunciation.html)and reproduced below:

Paul:
Do you know where Loughton, Broughton and Woughton are? It was the particular pronunciation of these villages names that helped the locals know if you were new to the area!:lol:

My sister is a substitute teacher in an elementary school while she goes back to finish her degree...

The school is having a fund raiser selling Gertrude Hawk Chocolates.
So they hung up signs saying:
"Gertude Hawk Chocolates is Here!"

One of the teachers scratched out the "is" and wrote in "are".

My sister took issue because "Gertude Hawk Chocolates" is the company name, thus singular. So "is" is proper.
The teacher vehemently disagreed.

I hope my niece doesn't get this teacher.

My sister is a substitute teacher in an elementary school while she goes back to finish her degree...

The school is having a fund raiser selling Gertrude Hawk Chocolates.
So they hung up signs saying:
"Gertude Hawk Chocolates is Here!"

One of the teachers scratched out the "is" and wrote in "are".

My sister took issue because "Gertude Hawk Chocolates" is the company name, thus singular. So "is" is proper.
The teacher vehemently disagreed.

I hope my niece doesn't get this teacher.

"Is" would be appropriate if the word "chocolates" weren't present. It wasn't the company, Gertrude Hawk Chocolates, that was at the school, it was the company's product, so "are" is correct.

"Is" would be appropriate if the word "chocolates" weren't present. It wasn't the company, Gertrude Hawk Chocolates, that was at the school, it was the company's product, so "are" is correct.

no - the company name is "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates". It is singular so "is" is appropriate.

Perhaps the poster was phrased poorly but the grammer is correct.

I don't know, maybe a representative of the company was on site.

no - the company name is "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates". It is singular so "is" is appropriate.

Perhaps the poster was phrased poorly but the grammer is correct.

I don't know, maybe a representative of the company was on site.

I'm not going to belabor this, but once again, the company wasn't on site, their product was. The grammar (not grammer :cool:) is wrong.

Intersting side note: another difference between British and American English is the use of the plural verb with collective nouns. In British English, it's "Parliament are in session," and in this instance "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates are here" would be correct whether the verb were referring to "Gertrude Hawk" or "chocolate."

I'm not going to belabor this, but once again, the company wasn't on site, their product was. The grammar (not grammer :cool:) is wrong.

Intersting side note: another difference between British and American English is the use of the plural verb with collective nouns. In British English, it's "Parliament are in session," and in this instance "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates are here" would be correct whether the verb were referring to "Gertrude Hawk" or "chocolate."

Sorry, but I must belabor it. The grammAr is correct.

I worked for XXXXX Plastics.

We had product literature that said "blah blah...Don't worry XXXXX Plastics is here!"

but we weren't really there.

is that incorrect as well?

How about "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates be here dude"?

Grammar and spelling never annoy me on internet forums. As mentioned, there are many people that have English as a second, or third, or fourth, .... language. It is not for me to be a critic when I can't do more than order a beer in other languages.

Every forum has its own language too. I'm a regular at Flyertalk, and it is funny to see new people come in and complain from time to time about the frequent use of airport and airline codes. It is the nature of that forum and the regulars understand it. The request to use full city names would be along the lines of typing "Advanced Product Quality Planning" every time you wanted to reference APQP over here.

There is also one deaf member there that writes in American Sign Language. The sentence structure is quite different from normal written English and may take a few reads to figure out what he is trying to say. It is sad to see a new person show up and accuse him of being drunk or stupid.

Interesting question:).. initially I agreed with Jim. Although, if you would consider chocolates as a plural noun, singular in nature, then it would be is:



5. Plural nouns that are singular in meaning
http://ace.acadiau.ca/english/grammar/images/bullet3.gifSome plural nouns take singular verbs, for example, athletics, economics, politics, news, mumps, and measles.
Outlaw-Politics are an issue in R. K. Narayan’s The Man-eater of Malgudi.

Rehabilitated-Politics is an issue in R. K. Narayan’s The Man-eater of Malgudi.

http://ace.acadiau.ca/english/grammar/s_v.htm

Although, the best approach would be to Randy the phrase, and change it to "Gertrude Hawk chocolates sold here"! :lol:

I was thinking that Chinese is the most diffiuclt language but now feel that English also may be a difficult one :bonk:

Sorry, but I must belabor it. The grammAr is correct.

I worked for XXXXX Plastics.

We had product literature that said "blah blah...Don't worry XXXXX Plastics is here!"

but we weren't really there.

is that incorrect as well?

Well, you were somewhere weren't you? :D In this case, there isn't any question whether it's the company or the plastics that were being referred to, so "is" is correct. In the candy instance, if a company representative were present, and the poster was intended to announce that, then "is" would be correct. On the other hand, if the poster was intended to announce the presence of the candy, it should be "are."

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had written "Chocolate" instead of "Chocolates." :tg:

Jim, what if I were to write it as "Gertude Hawk Chocolates" is Here! instead of "Gertude Hawk Chocolates is Here!"?

Well, you were somewhere weren't you? :D In this case, there isn't any question whether it's the company or the plastics that were being referred to, so "is" is correct. In the candy instance, if a company representative were present, and the poster was intended to announce that, then "is" would be correct. On the other hand, if the poster was intended to announce the presence of the candy, it should be "are."

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had written "Chocolate" instead of "Chocolates." :tg:

The poster was not announcing that the chocolates were there - it was announcing the the catalogues were there so go out and raise funds.
This is an annual thing. Any teacher there for more than a year knows how it works so there shouldn't be any question whether it's the company, the catalog, or the chocolates.
If the chocolates were there for distribution it probably should have said "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates chocolates are here"

as to your last line - they can't. The name of the company is "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates". Has been since I remember

The poster was not announcing that the chocolates were there - it was announcing the the catalogues were there so go out and raise funds.
This is an annual thing. Any teacher there for more than a year knows how it works so there shouldn't be any question whether it's the company, the catalog, or the chocolates.
If the chocolates were there for distribution it probably should have said "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates chocolates are here"

as to your last line - they can't. The name of the company is "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates". Has been since I remember

All of this information might have prevented all of the back-and-forth. Nonetheless, it still would have been a lot easier for the poster to say "The Gertrude Hawks catalogs are here!" because neither Gertie nor her chocolates were present, apparently. As the sentence was originally cast, it was questionable at best (else we wouldn't be having this conversation).

Friends,

In case our Fellow Covers got lost in the chocolate language business.:D

Gertrude Hawk Chocolates (http://www.gertrudehawkchocolates.com/).

Stijloor.

:lol: Sounds like the grammar was correct without editing is to are, however, it does come out sounding unusual. I would have gone with "Gerty Hawk Chocolates has arrived!"....or would it be "have" lol. English language is so willy nilly at times, it must be tough to learn as a second language with all these odd rules.

:lol: Sounds like the grammar was correct without editing is to are, however, it does come out sounding unusual. I would have gone with "Gerty Hawk Chocolates has arrived!"....or would it be "have" lol. English language is so willy nilly at times, it must be tough to learn as a second language with all these odd rules.

Let me explain why something was wrong with the construction. It's subject/verb agreement that we're talking about, so first we have to determine the subject of the sentence. Here's the sentence as Scott originally gave it to us: "Gertude [sic] Hawk Chocolates is Here!"
The first question is, is the subject "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates" or just "Chocolates"? We might be able to use capitalization as a hint (i.e., the capitilization of "Chocolates" might mean that it's part of the company name), but because the word "Here" is also capitalized, that idea is out the window.

Nonetheless, let's assume that the subject is 'Gertrude Hawks Chocolates." If that's the case, "is" would be correct. The problem is that if the sentence is correct as cast, we should be able to assume either that the company itself is present, or that a representative of the company is present. Remember--we're saying that the subject of the sentence, with which the verb must agree, is the company name, and not its products or catalogs. If neither of those things are true, then the sentence is grammatically correct, but factually incorrect.

Because we now know that (A) the company itself wasn't present; (B) a company representative wasn't present (or at least wasn't being referred to) and (C) the chocolates weren't present either, the subject of the sentence is wrong. The meaning someone intended to convey is that catalogs were present. In other words, the person who made the sign didn't provide the necessary information. It doesn't matter that everyone knew what was meant; we're talking about the rules of grammar here, and in some contexts this might be pedantic overkill, but I think that signs hung in schools should be grammatically--and factually--correct.

So the person who corrected the sign made the wrong correction. The sign should have been changed to read "Gertrude Hawks Chocolates catalogs are here!" The questions of (A) what's actually present and (B) subject/verb agreement are thus eliminated.

All of this information might have prevented all of the back-and-forth. Nonetheless, it still would have been a lot easier for the poster to say "The Gertrude Hawks catalogs are here!" because neither Gertie nor her chocolates were present, apparently. As the sentence was originally cast, it was questionable at best (else we wouldn't be having this conversation).

And it's not even good chocolate.

And it's not even good chocolate.

But it's for a good cause (I hope). :D

I was thinking that Chinese is the most difficult language but now feel that English also may be a difficult one :bonk:

:lmao::lol:

I like that one, Ajit. The discussion we are having on subject/ verb agreement was quite common when I was in High School. Saying, it was not always clear which is the proper choice. As Jim (and randy earlier) suggested, many times it is better to construct the sentence in a different way. If one has that much trouble working on the agreement, it probably was going to be an unclear sentence anyway.

I lament that passion for proper English is quickly becoming a lost art. My kids are doing pretty good on this one. However, I think it has more to do with their listening/ reading comprehension and retention, and less to do with understanding the rules.

And it's not even good chocolate.

Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:

The Belgians
The Dutch
There is no equal.

Stijloor.

Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:

The Belgians
The DutchThere is no equal.

Stijloor.

You need to provide the proof of the effectiveness of their process :lol:

Just submit PSW to ...

Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:

The Belgians
The Dutch
There is no equal.

Stijloor.

But the Dutch also make zoute drop (dubbel zout rond is what I tried once in Curacao...once) which cancels out wonderful chocolate.

Are you an afficianado?

I lament that passion for proper English is quickly becoming a lost art. My kids are doing pretty good on this one. However, I think it has more to do with their listening/ reading comprehension and retention, and less to do with understanding the rules.

Have you read "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves"? If you enjoy English, and lament the poor use of the language that is all around us, there is a good chance you will like this book.

Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:

The Belgians
The Dutch
There is no equal.

Stijloor.

Not true, IMHO. I've tasted both Dutch and Belgian chocolate (while living there) and there is a small English chocolatier who makes delicious goodies, the equal of those European delights.......

But the Dutch also make zoute drop (dubbel zout rond is what I tried once in Curacao...once) which cancels out wonderful chocolate.

Are you an afficianado?

Scott, my friend, just mentioning "zoute drop" makes my mouth water. The zoute drop is a Dutch delight that I had my American friends taste to their great horror. If you're not used to that stuff.....:confused: Whoa! Hundreds of different flavo(u)rs and varieties are produced in Holland. The only drawback is that if you indulge in that stuff, it'll cause your blood pressure to go way up.

If you like that stuff, I can provide you with a source in the USA where you can buy it. That includes all Dutch delicacies.

Thanks for reminding me.

Stijloor.

That description kinda reminds me of "seed" in Hawaii, they love it, but to me it tasted rather like putting a cube of salt and a nectarine in my mouth at the same time!:biglaugh:

My pet peeve is not with posts, but concerns spoken conversation.

I often hear "orientate" when the word "orient" would be proper. This drives me nuts!!!

My pet peeve is not with posts, but concerns spoken conversation.

I often hear "orientate" when the word "orient" would be proper. This drives me nuts!!!

And 'pacific' instead of specific.......'perifrial' instead of peripheral and (no thinks to the encumbent POTUS) 'neuculaer' when nuclear is the correct word.

My pet peeve is not with posts, but concerns spoken conversation.

I often hear "orientate" when the word "orient" would be proper. This drives me nuts!!!

Mine would be the use/overuse of "you know" during spoken conversation.

Friends,

Principal - Principle :frust: confusion.

Stijloor.

My pet peeve is not with posts, but concerns spoken conversation.

I often hear "orientate" when the word "orient" would be proper. This drives me nuts!!!

In the same vein (not "vain" :tg:), "preventative" instead of just "preventive."

Friends,

Principal - Principle :frust: confusion.

Stijloor.

I remember a mnemonic device a grade school teacher of mine offered in order to remember the difference--"A principal is a person, and a person can be a pal." That works for the noun form of the word, but "principal" is also an adjective ((The principal reason..."), while "principle" is only a noun. So remember the "pal" thing, and also that if the word is being used as an adjective, it's "principal."

Here is a funny one: I've seen incontinence used in place of inconvenience!!!:lol::lol:

Mr. Simon Cowell, of American Idol fame, has one that really gets to me: using think in place of thing, as in everythink, somethink......:(

Well, here what we be gonna did...............:lol:

Friends,

For real or not (Adobe Photoshop can do magic..), this is one of my favorites (http://cdn.davesdaily.com/pictures/477-badspelling.jpg)!

Stijloor.

Oh no, it's catching! This was in our company newsletter this week.

One thing that really irritates me about how many of our teenagers speak is that they add "like" as every 4th work in a sentence. Is this only a Aussie thing?
:mad:
I live with a 15 yr old girl and everything is "like you know, he's like an amazing dancer and like really great to talk to and like"

And this from a private school education too.

Is this only a Aussie thing?

I hear the same thing here in America's heartland.

I have a 13 year old...she does the same thing.

You need to provide the proof of the effectiveness of their process :lol:

Just submit PSW to ...


With sample parts, no less.....

what bothers me most is run on sentences no punctuation and postings in all lowercase this is just being lazy

what bothers me most is run on sentences no punctuation and postings in all lowercase this is just being lazy

Amen to that! :applause:

Stijloor.

what bothers me most is run on sentences no punctuation and postings in all lowercase this is just being lazy

Hear, hear :applause:

What really annoys the hell out of me is when there are no paragraphs. If I receive an email that just looks like a brain dump of information in one big block of text I expect it is going to make my head hurt reading it. I am so tempted to just hit delete at that point.

Why is it that people don't seem to know where the "enter" key is anymore or is it just a hang over from me learning to type on a manual typewriter and having to hit return or run off the page. :biglaugh:

So many of the irritating things submitted so far are things that I believe are a common courtesy to our readers and as professionals we should all take pride how we communicate and present ourselves. Or am I just feeling old today :confused:

To me englis is the 2nd lanuage.;)

I hate when people use text talk when posting, annoys the crap out of me! I also hate whe people type alot instead of a lot, it's two words!!!!!

My all time annoyance would be not really grammar related, I guess it could be though, is when someone addresses something to me and puts Mr. Shawn ---- WTF do I need to be a mister???? If you'd pay a little attention to my name "Shawn Ann" you'd have to realize that I'm in no way a male!

I hate when people use text talk when posting, annoys the crap out of me! I also hate whe people type alot instead of a lot, it's two words!!!!!

My all time annoyance would be not really grammar related, I guess it could be though, is when someone addresses something to me and puts Mr. Shawn ---- WTF do I need to be a mister???? If you'd pay a little attention to my name "Shawn Ann" you'd have to realize that I'm in no way a male!

Hey ShawnAnn - isn't 'WTF' text talk..............????:lmao:

I hate when people use text talk when posting, annoys the crap out of me! I also hate whe people type alot instead of a lot, it's two words!!!!!

My all time annoyance would be not really grammar related, I guess it could be though, is when someone addresses something to me and puts Mr. Shawn ---- WTF do I need to be a mister???? If you'd pay a little attention to my name "Shawn Ann" you'd have to realize that I'm in no way a male!BTW, have you met any boys named Sue? ;)
I happen to know several folks named Evelyn - both male and female gender.

I know both males and females named Sean (sometimes pronounced "shawn" and sometimes as "seen.") Worse, with hairstyles, body piercing, and jewelry, even a head shot photo might leave a casual viewer confused about gender.

BTW, it is reasonable to assume some folks who post here are working with those impossibly tiny PDAs (Personal Digital Assistants) and still manage to get their meaning across by using "txt tlk" - I also note that some versions of browsers do not allow the user to use paragraphing when entering text in a dialog box here on the Cove unless the user hard types html code into the box.