Hello to all

I am having a bit of trouble identifying what falls under the "external document" denomination

Are customer bids ( private and public )considered external documents? As such do we need to determine their location of retention and by whom they are seen?

How about manufacturer's manuals ? do these NEED to be considered external documents and controlled? one of our departments deals with software design and development, another with SUN products assembly configuration and installation, another with internet and network security...

Are manuals and hand out our employees bring back from their training sessions considered external documents?

Thanks for any help, i really am a bit lost :tg:

I moved your thread to the documentation board.


I am having a bit of trouble identifying what falls under the "external document" denomination

If you scroll down to the bottom of this page you will find links to similar threads.

Are customer bids ( private and public )considered external documents? As such do we need to determine their location of retention and by whom they are seen?

I would - do you want everybody seeing your quotes and bids?


How about manufacturer's manuals ? do these NEED to be considered external documents and controlled? one of our departments deals with software design and development, another with SUN products assembly configuration and installation, another with internet and network security...

Not really - but you may need to address it within your system. Something like "equipment manuals used for PM are kept in the maintenece area in binders".

Are manuals and hand out our employees bring back from their training sessions considered external documents?


Only from the standpoint of training records. If they receive some sort of certificate of completion - I would keep a copy in their training records. The rest does not need control.

I have a general 'rule of thumb' for which documents need controlling - if a document is subject to change and someone getting the wrong version could cause a problem, control it.

Customer bids - 7.2.2 b) requires us to make sure that we are quoting for the 'right thing' so I would limit their distribution and have a system for circulating changes if they happen.

Manufacturer's manuals - unlikely to need controlling.

Course notes given to your staff - unlikely to need controlling - they are right at the time of issue (hopefully!) but are not subject to updating, unless they offer to do that for you.

My opinion is to keep it simple. Set a definition of what external documents will be controlled and then execute. I control the standards and external documents referenced within our QMS procedures and vendor documents that are used as part of the process (like OS installation manuals).
As a software company we have 5 3" binders that contain all our controled external documentation. Request for Proposals/Bids are kept in our customer files.

I have a general 'rule of thumb' for which documents need controlling - if a document is subject to change and someone getting the wrong version could cause a problem, control it.

Customer bids - 7.2.2 b) requires us to make sure that we are quoting for the 'right thing' so I would limit their distribution and have a system for circulating changes if they happen.

Manufacturer's manuals - unlikely to need controlling.

Course notes given to your staff - unlikely to need controlling - they are right at the time of issue (hopefully!) but are not subject to updating, unless they offer to do that for you.

Excellent advice! :applause: I especially like your approach that you "would limit their distribution and have a system for circulating changes if they happen." Consider putting them on your server network in a read only folder as a further control.

I think the subject of Machine/Manufacturer's manual needs special consideration. As a regular user of the Cove for the past 2.5 years, I witnessed several cases of people coming here seeking help because they had lost their machine manuals. The usual reasons were because the person in charge previously had left employment.

I had previous experience of trying to buy used process machines which were upgraded and modified over the years but without proper records and details. Often, we just offer a fraction of its actual value because you don't know whether you could eventually use it without further modifications.

Such manuals, blueprints and file may not need 'control' per-se, but a copy may need to be safely kept or archived somewhere.

Harry, good point on the manuals - I normally control them as records rather than documents.

Hi Sardokar,
In our end, we define External document (ED) are documents of external origin from customer, certifying bodies, Vendors or subcontractors which compose of the following such as: Engineering/Technical Data Sheets, Technical Specifications, Specific Customer Quality Requirements & Industry standards such as ISO18001, ISO/TS16949, ISO22000, ISO17025.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Raffy:cool:

Harry, good point on the manuals - I normally control them as records rather than documents.
hello my dear

i want sample or names only for the documents shall be done in the companies

regards
Ramadan