Hello!
I need your advice.

My company purchasing manager didn't want to have a supplier quality manual neither a Supplier rating process for supplier(purchasing don't have the enough resources to do it :(), so I suggested to him to have a monthly meeting with the buyers and SQA's to discuss supplier performance, delivery, quality, issues, etc and determine if actions needed to be requested to supplier (CAR's or any other). he was agreed and I organized the first meeting and explain the purpose of it and record the minutes of the meeting and gave them to Purchasing manager. Purchasing manager never organized another meeting.:mad:
I'm not sure if he doesn't undestand the ISO 9000 standard or he doesn't care about it. Do you have some info/Literature/presentation taht I can provide to him for review?
Do you think that a monthly meeting and records of meeting and complete the agreed actions would be enough to satisfy the standard?
Thanks for your help and time.
AC

Excuse me?

Ask your whatever what they think this means....

7.4.1 Purchasing process
The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product shall be dependent upon the effect of the
purchased product on subsequent product realization or the final product.

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).

Why have a meeting? If you have the data on supplier performance, you don't need a meeting. Just add criteria for SCAR trigger, supplier disqualification, probation status, etc...assign the responsibility for supplier performance evaluation to someone who has to track and report it.

It seems to me that having a meeting is an unnecessary bureaucracy that might not add value.

Let's meet about the meeting we're gonna meet about.:lol:

Why have a meeting?

Because I thought this would encourage a little bit to Purchasing to take care of supplier evaluation and start evaluating supplier performance and get data to be ready for the meeting.:confused:

Because I thought this would encourage a little bit to Purchasing to take care of supplier evaluation and start evaluating supplier performance and get data to be ready for the meeting.:confused:

Anerol,

Do you have Management Review meeting? How often?

Do you conduct Internal Audits? How often does purchasing process gets audited?

The minutes of the Management Review meetings should point directly to deficiency of this process.

Anerol,

Do you conduct Internal Audits? How often does purchasing process gets audited?
Last december 2007 an internal audit was completed for Purchasing processes, and a non conformance was raised due missing process to conduct supplier evaluation, but Purchasing manager has not addressed the issue yet.

I wanted to know if my "idea" about the meeting was appropiate, but based on responses I don't think so.:nope:

Because I thought this would encourage a little bit to Purchasing to take care of supplier evaluation and start evaluating supplier performance and get data to be ready for the meeting.:confused:

This only works if the guy that Purchasing reports to calls the meeting and is serious about it so he asks tough questions during the meeting.

Why don't you instead ask Purchasing what would cause them to cut off a supplier? If quality isn't part of the answer, then you have a problem. If quality is part of the answer, ask them how they keep track of supplier quality.

Anerol C,

He is a copy of a SCAR that I use in relation to suppliers.
When you add a $250.00 Admin. charge, rework, labor, Offline cost,Material, and Freight. This gets there attention real fast.

Hello!
I need your advice.

My company purchasing manager didn't want to have a supplier quality manual neither a Supplier rating process for supplier(purchasing don't have the enough resources to do it :(), so I suggested to him to have a monthly meeting with the buyers and SQA's to discuss supplier performance, delivery, quality, issues, etc and determine if actions needed to be requested to supplier (CAR's or any other). he was agreed and I organized the first meeting and explain the purpose of it and record the minutes of the meeting and gave them to Purchasing manager. Purchasing manager never organized another meeting.:mad:
I'm not sure if he doesn't undestand the ISO 9000 standard or he doesn't care about it. Do you have some info/Literature/presentation taht I can provide to him for review?
Do you think that a monthly meeting and records of meeting and complete the agreed actions would be enough to satisfy the standard?
Thanks for your help and time.
AC

How many suppliers do you have yourself? I've been in your shoes before and took it upon myself to track supplier performance. The information wasn't shared with suppliers initially but after a few years and more people started hearing about what I was doing, it was rolled out throughout the company.

If nothing else it will make your job easier, you have to have data.

I think the meeting is a good idea if it was accompanied with data, we always used to identify the Top 5 Worse Suppliers on a monthly basis. From there we'd proceed with development of that supplier.

Last december 2007 an internal audit was completed for Purchasing processes, and a non conformance was raised due missing process to conduct supplier evaluation, but Purchasing manager has not addressed the issue yet.

I wanted to know if my "idea" about the meeting was appropiate, but based on responses I don't think so.:nope:

Anerol,

I understand what you are trying to do. While determining vendor performance is a critical factor, "getting the right part at the right time" should be your main focus. Don't forget that the purpose of measurement is improvement.

I have dealt with purchasing in Mexico for the past ten years. It is not the same as US. RTV is not a straight forward process. Most of the time, RTV cost more than scrap. Permit, Import, export, permits, country of origin declaration, getting red-lighted at the border are some of the hassles....Finding suppliers is another story...I can go through many examples that a purchasing department faces in Mexico that others don't have...

I would try to change the climate from "punishment of suppliers" to a positive one of " collaborative effort with suppliers to improve quality and delivery." Focus on LONG TERM GAIN...

I am not sure if you have mapped out your process for purchasing. If you have, you know one of the most important sub-processes is obtaining import permit at least two weeks before production. Once you start tracking this data, you will discover numerous interrelated problems that overlap with product quality issues that could even include payment timing and terms. Another area you can focus is to have a good concurrent engineering system with your suppliers. If purchasing finds out that you want to help, they will be more receptive. Normally, purchasing wants to protect suppliers and quality wants to blame suppliers. They need to work together on supplier related issues.

You need to change you approach from "obtaining conformance" to "improving performance through team work."

Good Luck!

I would try to change the climate from "punishment of suppliers" to a positive one of " collaborative effort with suppliers to improve quality and delivery." Focus on LONG TERM GAIN...

You need to change you approach from "obtaining conformance" to "improving performance through team work."

Great point michellemmm - if the relationship you create is adversarial then the best you can hope for is reluctant compliance. If you try to become true partners with your suppliers, even going as far as sharing savings arising from quality improvements, the whole relationship becomes mutually beneficial.

I have been told that this doesn't work in India, China etc... which is absolute rubbish. Both those societies are founded on the concept of relationships, where transparent information sharing is the key to successful and long term relationships. I don't know about Mexico, but treating people with respect never seems to be the wrong thing to do!

Jim

Email is an acceptable alternative. I would email the metrics quarterly to the Purchasing Director with a cover letter and signature. Our 3rd party auditor accepted the read receipt along with copies of the report as objective evidence. The supplier performance was also covered during the management review.

Good Luck!

If you have nothing to go by at the moment, draw a line in the sand and state that all suppliers are currently on the approved list. Move forward from here and keep records ie: from credits etc, and use that as a start for the measuring process. The Purchasing manager may already be measuring in other ways like on time delivery. Ask and he may volunteer info in a different format.

Bazzle

The most simple supplier rating form (http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/sup_eval.pdf) I have seen. There are a few others in the free files directory (http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/).

Anerol C, As you can probably see from the posts you have received, many of these Management Representatives would love to get in this fellow's knickers on this issue.

I don't think it was established that your organization was registered. If you are, clearly you need to fix this or your registrar will most certainly issue you a finding, perhaps more than one because there is a chain of issues related to this problem.

In any event, it is your responsibility to make sure this purchasing person knows the requirements. More over, you need to document procedures that assure compliance with the requirements and implement them.

Hopefully you will be able to convince this person that your company must comply with this requirement. Best case would be that you come up with some innovative process that this person is comfortable with, document it, and implement it.

Good Luck
Bob

<snip>
In any event, it is your responsibility to make sure this purchasing person knows the requirements.

Correct.
More over, you need to document procedures that assure compliance with the requirements and implement them. Maybe, maybe not. ISO 9001 does not mandate purchasing procedures. Don't commit words to paper until you have determined that a procedure will actually add value to your company.

While CliffK is correct in that the standard does not require documented procedures in this case, I can tell you from personal experience, having surveyed and audited hundreds of suppliers, that no where have I seen an effective system for control of the "Purchasing Process' that did not have the process documented.

I feel it is one of the most important parts of the Supply Chain, and one that could have a devistating impact on an organization unless it is effectively managed and controlled. The choice is clearly yours, but if it were me I would have a good procedure on the street.

Bob

While CliffK is correct in that the standard does not require documented procedures in this case, I can tell you from personal experience, having surveyed and audited hundreds of suppliers, that no where have I seen an effective system for control of the "Purchasing Process' that did not have the process documented.
Bob,

Not to be rude, but are you sure there's a causal relationship between documentation and effectiveness?

Over the past couple of years I have been helping clients cut fat from their management systems.

Without exception, the purchasing procedures have fallen into the big honkin' binder category. You know, those are the ones that quietly gather dust in the corner until somebody drags them out to bone up for the next audit.

Signature authority documents were useful in some cases, and we kept those. The others, though, went over the side.

It goes without saying that we made sure that measurements were in place to tell us if the purchasing process started to go awry.

Since these clients still answer my calls and allow me to assist them, I guess the results have been satisfactory.

CliffK, I guess what I am saying is that I think there is a direct relationship between lack of documentation and effectiveness.

And yes, the situation you describe where the level of documentation becomes a self eating watermelon, I too have seen over and over. This is, in some cases mana for consultants and 3rd party auditors. The spirit of continual improvement in a well run ISO/AS program should uncover these type of gold plated processes and become fodder for change.

May I ask, are you a consultant? Just curious.

Bob

CliffK, I guess what I am saying is that I think there is a direct relationship between lack of documentation and effectiveness.
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that, Bob.

There are other factors way more important than documentation.

I'm reminded of a quote from John McConnell (founder & pres. Worthington Industries) to Thomas Peters. Peters had asked his dumb standard question about how the management system enabled Worthington to be so successful. McConnell answered, "I don't know if this is complicated enough for you, Mr. Peters. We talk to each other."

There's a world of knowledge in that statement.


May I ask, are you a consultant? Just curious.

BobI prefer to be called a "sustainability enhancer.":notme:

We are in agreement!

Sustainability ehnancer huh? This old dog just learned a new trick.

Bob

Sustainability ehnancer huh?


I also don't mind "prophet," or "font of wisdom," but I think "omniscient one" goes a bit too far. :tg:


This old dog just learned a new trick.
Bob
My invoice is in the mail.;)

Ahh, we agree again on that last handle.

On the invoice issue, chalk it up to mentoring the elderly.

Bob