Dear all,
I am a bit confused about the difference between document and record within ISO 9001:2000.
Let us suppose I have a training plan, can we consider the plan as a document and the approved letter of it as record?
Many thanks

What do you mean by "the approved letter of it"?

What do you mean by "the approved letter of it"?I gather the OP intends approved "revision letter."

Here's the skinny: we talk about documents and records in lots of places throughout the Cove. Using search functions will turn up literally hundreds of posts and almost all of them will agree that a record is merely a special kind of document which is the "history" of an activity.

Most historians will agree history is unchangeable (although it may be "updated") and therefore records are unchangeable (no "versions" of records.)

In general, any document which is not a record is a plan for an activity. (Blueprints are plans for the activity of making a product.) Circumstances may change and thus plans may change and so most documents may be revised. Generally, the previous plan is "withdrawn" and the new version takes its place.

Timetables for retention and or destruction of documents and records are dictated by
need
government regulation
contract requirementand constitute a specialty within the general field of document management.

Dear all,
I am a bit confused about the difference between document and record within ISO 9001:2000.
Let us suppose I have a training plan, can we consider the plan as a document and the approved letter of it as record?
Many thanks

Hello Salman,

A document is used to record something,and history of the document is a record.Before becoming history,the document may be revised/changed/modified.

There was a similar discussion on another thread:Form vs Record.:

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=25920&highlight=difference+between+form+record


I would suggest to merge the two threads to avoid duplication.

/Umang :D

Dear all,
I am a bit confused about the difference between document and record within ISO 9001:2000.
Let us suppose I have a training plan, can we consider the plan as a document and the approved letter of it as record?
Many thanks
for the person that has responsibility to prepare the plan. after having done his task, that plan is his record.
for the people have to take action in that plan, that plan is document.
hope to help you.

Hi :bigwave:
When you say a document it is may composed of the following, your Quality Manual, Procedures, Work which is used to control the process that affects the quality of the final product. While a record states the results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Raffy :cool:

The reference of two documents (Training Plan and its approval) you have given is a document and the outcome of this document will call record i.e. training record which shows that as per plan, training was provided and evaluated accordingly.

Hi :bigwave:
When you say a document it is may composed of the following, your Quality Manual, Procedures, Work which is used to control the process that affects the quality of the final product. While a record states the results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Raffy :cool:

Please don't limit your thinking of documents to those "that affect the quality of the final product." Documents can be of any type, especially in the supporting processes. Otherwise I agree with your description.

Records are also documents where we recorded the results of something -a training event, inspection results, internal audit notes, corrective action, etc.

Dear all,
I am a bit confused about the difference between document and record within ISO 9001:2000.
Let us suppose I have a training plan, can we consider the plan as a document and the approved letter of it as record?
Many thanks
As simple as the PDCA .....
Plan >> Document (Say what you do, ... in advance with details of 5W 1H)
Do >> Record (Evidence of executing the plan)
Check >> Data analysis (records provide the data)
Act >> Document Changes (Continual improvement of the Plan)
So now, where does your approved Training plan fits ??
Your Training plan as I gather is a draft plan and when approved is the document.
You agree ........ Salman ? :agree:

Just to make it simple apply the definitions from ISO 9000:2005 as you think they are applicable.....

3.7.2 document
information (3.7.1) and its supporting medium

EXAMPLE Record (3.7.6), specification (3.7.3), procedure document, drawing, report, standard.

NOTE 1 The medium can be paper, magnetic, electronic or optical computer disc, photograph or master sample, combination thereof.

NOTE 2 A set of documents, for example specifications and records, is frequently called “documentation”.

NOTE 3 Some requirements (3.1.2) (e.g. the requirement to be readable) relate to all types of documents, however there can be different requirements for specifications (e.g. the requirement to be revision controlled) and records (e.g. the requirement to be retrievable).


3.7.6 record
document (3.7.2) stating results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed

NOTE 1 Records can be used, for example, to document traceability (3.5.4) and to provide evidence of verification (3.8.4), preventive action (3.6.4) and corrective action (3.6.5).

NOTE 2 Generally records need not be under revision control.

Just to make it simple apply the definitions from ISO 9000:2005 as you think they are applicable.....

3.7.2 document
information (3.7.1) and its supporting medium

EXAMPLE Record (3.7.6), specification (3.7.3), procedure document, drawing, report, standard.

NOTE 1 The medium can be paper, magnetic, electronic or optical computer disc, photograph or master sample, combination thereof.

NOTE 2 A set of documents, for example specifications and records, is frequently called “documentation”.

NOTE 3 Some requirements (3.1.2) (e.g. the requirement to be readable) relate to all types of documents, however there can be different requirements for specifications (e.g. the requirement to be revision controlled) and records (e.g. the requirement to be retrievable).


3.7.6 record
document (3.7.2) stating results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed

NOTE 1 Records can be used, for example, to document traceability (3.5.4) and to provide evidence of verification (3.8.4), preventive action (3.6.4) and corrective action (3.6.5).

NOTE 2 Generally records need not be under revision control.

:agree::)

Dear all,
I am a bit confused about the difference between document and record within ISO 9001:2000.
Let us suppose I have a training plan, can we consider the plan as a document and the approved letter of it as record?
Many thanks

Simple way to memorize:

A document says: "Do."
A record says: "Done."

Stijloor.