Can anyone give me some advice as to how much documentation I should use when moving our QM from hard copy to our Intranet? I am changing the location of it in our procedure for doc. & data control. Since I'm not changing it per se, do I need to document anything else?

I would suggest that you at least address what the official document is. What I mean is, I think you must define that the electronic copy is the valid one, as opposed to a printed copy of the electronic file. Depending on how employees use their documents, this can be a source of problems, since many times we have found folks using a printed copy that is a couple revs behind! Maybe a statement that printed copies are reference docs while the electronic version is teh legitimate one.

------------------
See you down life's highway!

Eric

Just for insurance but a watermark across the electronic version on the intranet with "UNCONTROLLED COPY" or the like. If you really want to get fancy put "Valid For This Date Only followed by the actual date of printing". This ensures that the auditors will not be able to treat the occasional printed off version, which you can not easily control, as an official copy.

Our company did the same approximately 8 months ago, what we did is insert a footer that wil print on every page if printed out that reads: Reference copy only. File can be found on: (file and path)

Originally posted by Neil:

If you really want to get fancy put "Valid For This Date Only followed by the actual date of printing". This ensures that the auditors will not be able to treat the occasional printed off version, which you can not easily control, as an official copy.I'm not sure it's particularly 'fancy', but I have seen this methond and I like it. Thanks for the suggestion!

Yeah, if you can do it, it's the way to go. We have our QSM, procedures, work instructions and all the necessary forms that you may need to use on our intranet. WE have had so for a few years now and everyone loves it, auditors included. We state in our procedures that a printed off copy is a reference copy and is valid only for the date that is printed in the document footer.

We also use the footer with print date, but to avoid printing out a document late in the day and then having to do the same thing the next morning, ours prints both the date and time and states that the document is good for 24 hours. Just a variation that works well for us.

Alf

Thanks for all the good ideas. Just out of curiousity, how has everyone handled accessability for each department, especially those with 2nd & 3rd shift and no regular Supervisor.

To Russ, we are setting up our system with having someone trained in the off shifts on how to access our read only documents. Also Work Instructions for processes will have hard copies available in areas needing them, these will be the only controlled "hard" copies in existence.

To all, we too are using the footer note method of designating current copies of printed documents. However we state this copy as being good for three days from print date. Does anyone else use this length of time?

I was wondering, do I have to handle navigation on our HTML QM site as a change, or just the substance of the page? Any ideas on this? You guys have been a great help!

If you change the navigation 'method' in an html site, I doubt this would be a 'change' issue. But then again - did you give training in accessing documents initially? Many companies do. If so, you will *probably* have to redo the training if the change is not 'intuitive'. Note that often 'training' for using a site to access documents is little more than a pdf file by e-mail explaining the basics. But again - it depends upon your company. This is as much a common sense issue as anything else.

I was wonderign if anyone had some key points in setting up an internal intranet beyond control of the QMS documentation. But perhaps what to forget and what not to forget. Such as our mother company handles the safety and enviromental policies so I should leave that alone. I am the quality manager and mangement representative. I was planning in the future of using email to notify them by email of revisions to the QMS.
I been thinking whether I could use it for training and access to QMS documentation for outside auditors. I went this way because my company has gone personnel lean and I coudlnt keep up with the seven QM's out there. I still have several work instruction books that are controlled.
In additon, I have designed many databases which several differanat mangement are making use of. All though I've allowed file sharing, there is still some where there is a compatability issue. Then there is the company metrics which I do all the secretarial work now. The person responsible doesn't seem to want in but if I make it a link.I should be all set.

We have everything on intranet also - have from the start and it's held up very well to usage AND audits. We take all our documents and convert them to PDF format for publication on the intranet - keeps anyone from being able to modify them AND is a format that is available on all the computers on the production floor, can be easily pulled up and doesn't require any special training to do so.

I was wonderign if anyone had some key points in setting up an internal intranet beyond control of the QMS documentation. Beyond control of the QMS... Well, we use the intranet for a multitude of information. Since the QMS represents the rules we are supposed to follow, we use the intranet to explain why that is so... Have a look at:

How does your Company Communicate Requirements to Employees (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8422&highlight=intranet)
How many of you would say you have or use good visuals in the shop? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8467&highlight=intranet) I was planning in the future of using email to notify them by email of revisions to the QMS.Exactly what we do, and it works well. We are not entirely paper free however, so in addition we still use the reciept system... via a form on the intranet. I been thinking whether I could use it for trainingI suggest the following links to a couple of e-learning threads:

Use of Computer Aided Learning for Quality Topics - E-Learning (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4382&highlight=e-learning)
E-learning take 2... Is anyone currently, or in the past, tried E-Learning? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5659&highlight=e-learning)
Live Training Vs. Software Self-Training - Complete training on 14001 (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8512&highlight=e-learning)
I went this way because my company has gone personnel lean and I coudlnt keep up with the seven QM's out there. I still have several work instruction books that are controlled. Ouch... Well, if you are personell lean, you will probably be forced to go lean systemwise too. I have been through the same thing, and extensive use of databases and intranet saved my bacon as well.

We have had some great discussions about intranet based systems in the past. Try these links:

Moving to a Paperless Electronic Doumentation System - Seeking Ideas (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7075&highlight=paperless)
Document Control and Distribution - How to save paper? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5584)
4.2.3d (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5932&highlight=Access)
Notes on equipment (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5904&highlight=Access)
Paperless systems (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3851&highlight=paperless)

/Claes

One of the easiest ways to for doc control, that I have found is a 1 gig sansdrive. Master copies are stored on it, it is write protected and all I have to do is plug it in to any USB port and the documents are there. No fuss, no muss. We have a published Master List (Excel) that is hyper linked to the intranet library, when I plug the sansdrive in, I receive a message about any changed documents (Word). You can get a 1 gig drive for $80 now, with 2 gig starting at $150.

Think about it this way, I can download an HD movie on it. Take it home and plug it into my TV or computer to watch. I could also save it on the TVo. They're great folks, it is also a very cheep offsite back up.

Thanks for all the good ideas. Just out of curiousity, how has everyone handled accessability for each department, especially those with 2nd & 3rd shift and no regular Supervisor.
There are off-the-shelf electronic document management and control systems which provide security levels and audit trails for documents.

Security level determines who may access document and whether the person may read, print, copy, modify, delete, create new, etc.

The audit trail keeps track of who accessed document and what he did with it.

By assigning a security level to each individual, you can allow necessary access without fear of losing control.

:applause: yet, this morning. I have something else on my mind. let me try to explain, I used to stamp part prints with a stamp then have the engineering manager and me sign off as a review ( tool , gauge changes,etc. . ) This would be in the master locked document control file. I then would make a copy for the job file, this was used to make copies every time the part was setup.
Now , our mother company and our customer says they want me to access their server at each setup for the current revision and keep no prints in the drawers. They do tell me they will notify me if the print has a change in dimensions or material . Otherwise they feel it is not necessary. I can find some ways around it -like I suppose when they notify me of a change - I'll stamp that print with the review and also stamped uncontrolled. I also listed their revision in a database that shipping uses on their packing list and ceritification. It seems they operate seperately and yet they also ask like we are the same company without any thought to the resources or system at this plant. I tried hard on the spelling and typing.

:applause: yet, this morning. I have something else on my mind. let me try to explain, I used to stamp part prints with a stamp then have the engineering manager and me sign off as a review ( tool , gauge changes,etc. . ) This would be in the master locked document control file. I then would make a copy for the job file, this was used to make copies every time the part was setup.
Now , our mother company and our customer says they want me to access their server at each setup for the current revision and keep no prints in the drawers. They do tell me they will notify me if the print has a change in dimensions or material . Otherwise they feel it is not necessary. I can find some ways around it -like I suppose when they notify me of a change - I'll stamp that print with the review and also stamped uncontrolled. I also listed their revision in a database that shipping uses on their packing list and ceritification. It seems they operate seperately and yet they also ask like we are the same company without any thought to the resources or system at this plant. I tried hard on the spelling and typing.

You have several noteworthy points in your post:

Current method of controlling customer prints - very good method of revision control
Customer changes method of providing prints
Not sure how to contol revision level of customer prints in-house (how do we know for sure WHEN to change process to accommodate new revision from customer when we do not receive hard copy and customer has "pull" system of revisions rather than "push" systems?)
Customer is not sympathetic with in-house problems he causes us.
My comments:

You have/had a nice workable system. Do you have more than one customer? If so, keep this system in place for them.
Customer changes are inevitable - you have to have a method to deal with them without throwing the rest of your processes off balance. This is the purview of the wonderful "Contract Review" process - a company reviews its capability and capacity BEFORE accepting new work. It makes sure it is absolutely sure of customer requirements. It negotiates with customer when there are "glitches."
You must negotiate with customer to provide you with NOTICE (email) when each revision of a print affecting your company is posted. In that notice should be a summary of changes and notice whether your company should continue making product to old print or stop and begin on new print. It should also tell you how to handle finished goods to the old print. It should further give a "window of compliance" time for your company to agree or balk and ask for contract change (price, penalty, delivery windows, etc.?) Configuration Management (of your customer) would dictate that you get notice immediately, not at your schedule of "each setup" - I had one setup that lasted for two years for one machine, one product, only changing expendable tooling, not the "setup."
Customer is not expected to be "sympathetic" - you are expected to be self-protective in conducting Contract Review and only agree to things within your cabability and capacity at a price which gives you a profit.
I don't mean this to be harsh or accusatory. The plain fact is, most customers will take advantage of suppliers who don't stand up for themselves. It's tempting to cave-in to big customers, but there are a lot of folks who got burned by Sears when they made Craftsman tools and components for Sears. Sears kept taking more and more of capacity until supplier needed Sears more than oxygen - that's when Sears started demanding concessions on price, etc. which drove supplier to near bankruptcy. Lesson: "think of the 'camel in the tent' story - if you give an inch, soon you'll be giving a mile."

yes, there will be an email becuase I have seen them before but they dont always cover all the areas you mentioned. I'll try to get agreement on that.
What are your thoughts on ISO/TS 16949 requirement on print review?
I mention in the last posting how I thinking of handling it.

We use a system similar to some of the posts here, but in addition the intranet access is really just a set of links that pull up the electrocic versions of the controlled approved documents. THis way you don't have to worry about considering this a change to the document at all. All our controlled docs are password protected (in Word format) so that there is no chance of someone editing the document somhow (even by accident) and THEN printing a copy. A read only set up only keeps the original doc from being over written. Other than that, we give a 7 day drop dead date on the printed version from the day it was printed. Our controlled docs are not terrible dynamic so the chance of 2 revisions of the same doc dated as valid are very slim.

Hope this helps!!

Larry Rowe