Hi all,

I have a question that I would love some opinions on. After starting at my current company, I noticed that they would specify paint or plastic color by stating the following on the drawings:

PMS 347C Green (PMS = Pantone Matching System)

or

Dell Gray (I inserted "Dell" for our company's name)

Obviously, this led to lots of different opinions on whether or not the color was correct when received from the supplier. And I totally disagree with using the Pantone PAPER coloring system to specify paint or plastic color.


So, I started requiring our Engineers to CLEARLY define color by the following:

Paint: Specify the exact brand and # of the paint (ex: Sherwin Williams black XX.XX)

Plastic: Accel color chip # XXXXX.XX (I also required suppliers to provide sample plastic color chips)


My question is this: Is this overkill? It certainly eliminated all opinions on whether or not something was the right color, but when GE Platics or Sherwin Williams changes their p/n, our drawings have to change to.

Thoughts?

In screen printing on plastic bottles we would specify a Pantone color.

For the color of the bottle itself we would mix our own to match a color sample provided by the customer - sometimes a pantone code, sometimes a piece of plastic they liked and wanted to match. Then we'd name it ourselves with mix specifications and create light, target, dark samples.

If there was a color straight off the shelf then it was called by the colorant supplier's color ID - Like Holland Colours XXXXXXX, or some such.

I have no real issue comparing to a pantone card... if that's the standard for inspection. If you're inspecting to a color chip, then you should reference the color chip.

It depends on what industry you are manufacturing for. A lot of our military work relies on FED-STD-595. I had a customer reject panels we had painted by a subtier due to not being the "correct" grey color. Sure enough, after we traced it back through the subtier's painting system, they used the wrong color. It was only off by a couple of shade numbers.

If it was me, I would like to see something specific defined as far as an actual, reproducable color. Is it possible to specify several similar colors, just in case one is no longer available?

Thanks for the replies. We aren't held to military specs, but to prevent disagreements with suppliers over color, I like specifying the color by # and having a chip to represent it.

I'm curious if there's an industry standard. If anyone out there works in paint/plastic....what do your customers do? Do they use the Pantone System? My molder wants us to - I think it gives him more flexibility. But, then you're comparing paper to plastic. Pantone did come up with a plastic equivalent, but try getting the samples - they look nothing like the paper colors.

....................... I'm curious if there's an industry standard. If anyone out there works in paint/plastic....what do your customers do? Do they use the Pantone System? My molder wants us to - I think it gives him more flexibility. But, then you're comparing paper to plastic. Pantone did come up with a plastic equivalent, but try getting the samples - they look nothing like the paper colors.

What if you are producing in another country? The brand and/or type you specified may not be available. That's why Pantone is popular, people just match the color, send a sample for approval and if ok, they are ready to move.

Having said that, you'll often find a certain amount of variation in color even from the same manufacturer.

Thanks for the replies. We aren't held to military specs, but to prevent disagreements with suppliers over color, I like specifying the color by # and having a chip to represent it.

I'm curious if there's an industry standard. If anyone out there works in paint/plastic....what do your customers do? Do they use the Pantone System? My molder wants us to - I think it gives him more flexibility. But, then you're comparing paper to plastic. Pantone did come up with a plastic equivalent, but try getting the samples - they look nothing like the paper colors.

In PVC extrusion we quantified color with L*a*b* numbers taken with a handheld spectrophotometer.

They ain't cheap though.

http://www.worldoftest.com/spectrophotometer.htm

Hi all,

I have a question that I would love some opinions on. After starting at my current company, I noticed that they would specify paint or plastic color by stating the following on the drawings:

PMS 347C Green (PMS = Pantone Matching System)

or

Dell Gray (I inserted "Dell" for our company's name)

Obviously, this led to lots of different opinions on whether or not the color was correct when received from the supplier. And I totally disagree with using the Pantone PAPER coloring system to specify paint or plastic color.


So, I started requiring our Engineers to CLEARLY define color by the following:

Paint: Specify the exact brand and # of the paint (ex: Sherwin Williams black XX.XX)

Plastic: Accel color chip # XXXXX.XX (I also required suppliers to provide sample plastic color chips)


My question is this: Is this overkill? It certainly eliminated all opinions on whether or not something was the right color, but when GE Platics or Sherwin Williams changes their p/n, our drawings have to change to.

Thoughts?

Like at one of my previous companies a paint color scheme was used specifically for corrosion protection and consistency.

Turn you engineers onto the RAL Color system. The 4-digit RAL Colors have been the standard for choosing colors for more than 70 years.

Many paint companies and suppliers of paint know the RAL color scheme and as it's widely accepted as an industry standard (Beside Mil-Spec Paint colors) noone should have an issue with standardization.


Try the link below on the RAL Color system.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS263&q=RAL+Color+Codes

Eohara,
I agree with Scott, but you can specify by paint number or procedure given by your customer and there approed supplier list.

This is good for overseas suppliers or molders to.

One thing if it is from Europe, then your carbon and black color will not match the american standards to to the different carbon content used in Europe.

Eohara,

As a plastics manufacturer we use a couple of different schemes.

Some guys use Pantone because its what they have used and the colourant suppliers can match to that.
For the pipe, the preferred method is RAL (think there is a sales office in the US). Very wide range of colours.

There are still national standards for colour and maybe ASTM has one. I know that Australia does.

Having a paper colour standard still causes a problem if you match it against plastic. Then you have the issues a what type of light you see it in, the angle, etc.

I agree with Scott as well .... the spectrometer is the best bet as it would save disagreements.

Nigel,
Sorry to restart this after a few months. I'm a product designer and have a constant problem with specifying colours for plastic parts.

We were using the pantone shade cards (printed paper cards), but as someone has already mentioned, these dont give you the desired results and it is open to interpretation. + we've always had problems with aluminium and silver shades.

My questions are
1. Is there an international standard for specifying pigment and paint colours for plastics? Are these colours available for us to view on Computer monitors? the rendering application within ProE does not seem to have a library of colours compatible with the real world.
2. How does one get access to suppliers of high-end colours and finishes, e.g. the kind you would find on a major Laptop Brand, like HP's Pavilions with the half fibre/ half-chrome finish?
3. Are there suppliers who will mix and match a colour for us based on an image or some other digital sample?

I know large organizations like GM, Motorola, HP will have great information banks on colours, materials and finishes. Unfortunately we dont and are fighting this specification battle.

1. Is there an international standard for specifying pigment and paint colours for plastics?

Not that works.

Are these colours available for us to view on Computer monitors?

Most computer monitors are uncalibrated and quite inconsistent. It's possible to obtain calibration sensors for monitors, and calibration software...but they're expensive, and only as accurate as their calibration. And, most only calibrate at a point on the monitor, not taking into account its center-to-edge variations and other technically caused inconsistencies. Generally, color calibration only takes a monitor from "hopeless" to "useful for a rough guess".

Perceived colors on monitors depend on the color temperature and spectral distribution of the room lighting, and the relative levels of the room lighting and the monitor back lighting.

Plus, monitors cannot adequately represent colors of pigments that themselves are dependent on ambient lighting, i.e. those containing reactive or directionally reflective pigments and other optical elements, and those that involve surface transparency, transmissive filtering and buried directional reflectance.

Plus, there are substantial differences in human color vision, even among those individuals without major color vision discrepancies...and that latter category includes 8% of males of predominantly northern European ancestry, for instance.

Color, I think, is the most complicated technical materials parameter there is, with the most subjective variations and the least useful objective measurement capabilities, even setting aside all of the aesthetic considerations.

Miregmgr

Thanks for the response. I'm using some presumably 'well calibrated' monitors and pretty well known professional brands. We've so far not had any major issues with the printing process reproduction of colours (though this is something we dont do very often).

Our problem is with specifying colours for automotive surfaces or for mobile phone shells, and finding that the results obtained (from painting) are not the results desired. Colours are specified based on how good they looked in a rendering. Our specification system currently is Pantone XXXX [Generic name] but this isn't working for us, even when we are using non-metallic shades.

It is relatively less of a problem with the automotive surfaces because we are stuck with using a suppliers predefined palette with little opportunity for mixing variations :(.

One of the most commonly favored hardware brands among IDs and graphic designers is Apple. Apple doesn't consider its monitors to be consistent as delivered, which is why the Apple Stores sell Pantone's inexpensive consumer-grade colorimeter for monitor calibration by individual amateur users. Many professional users choose to use better, standards-compliant calibration equipment, though. I don't know personally, but I've been told that the Xrite calibration equipment is one good brand.