How do engineering workshops (aerospace, AS9100) control CNC programs from creation through editing so that routers and documents always list the latest version. What file naming protocols are there out there? What changes can be made to a program at the machine that do not require change control? We have engineers that are used to 'tweaking' programs without records at the moment which does not give us the traceability we need for AS9100. Any suggestions and experiences gratefully received!!

Engineers Tweeking programs? Say it is not so:(
The simpest form of Control is to take and validate the program once it is done and place it in a folder that they do not have the ability to write to.
For the opperators you want to make sure that they have written instruction that clearly identifies where and what program file to access. If you keep multiple revisions accesable( not a good idea and fraught with danger) the opperator instruction needs to clearly identify which one is required.
As with most cutting programs there are built in opperator offsets and such that comp for tool wear and part variation that you will not try and control as such in the code.
Code validation is the key as too many times I have seen cutting code not follow the GD&T call outs for feature control and seen rounding errors in metric to english conversions come back to bite.
:2cents:

In our shop the approved program is called out in the part BOM. At any given time there is just the active program on the machine. When the operator starts the job he sends it to the machine form the approved folder from a special PC on the floor. If the programm doesn't work right or is new a Production Tryout report is being generated to document what needs to be tested and the outcome. The programmers test the programms with a software called Vericut.
One of the things we look for when we audit the shopfloor is that all the Revisons match up and that there is really no other program on the control and that seems to work ok.
What we can not prevent is the operator tweaking the Overrides. We tell them to feed that information back so the feedrates and speeds can be adjsuted but that does not always happen.

Changing the tooling and sequence gets documented.
Feeds and speeds are left up to the set-up person, who records the information on the set-up sheet.
The header on each program lists the program name (part name-op.#), name of programmer and date. Every time a change occurs, it is indicated in the header.

I'm new here (forum) and with AS9100. Most of my experience, 16 yrs, is with ISO9000 (only). But I have a question, why do CNC programs need to be controlled? I don't remember seeing a requirement in the standard (AS9100).

I'm new here (forum) and with AS9100. Most of my experience, 16 yrs, is with ISO9000 (only). But I have a question, why do CNC programs need to be controlled? I don't remember seeing a requirement in the standard (AS9100).

Hi Lorenzo,

A CNC program is considered a document. The Standards say that documents can be in any form or medium.

Stijloor.

3.7.2 document
information (3.7.1) and its supporting medium

EXAMPLE Record (3.7.6), specification (3.7.3), procedure document, drawing, report, standard.

NOTE 1 The medium can be paper, magnetic, electronic or optical computer disc, photograph or master sample, combination thereof.

NOTE 2 A set of documents, for example specifications and records, is frequently called “documentation”.

NOTE 3 Some requirements (3.1.2) (e.g. the requirement to be readable) relate to all types of documents, however there can be different requirements for specifications (e.g. the requirement to be revision controlled) and records (e.g. the requirement to be retrievable).

This definition is from ISO 9000:2005

I'm new here (forum) and with AS9100. Most of my experience, 16 yrs, is with ISO9000 (only). But I have a question, why do CNC programs need to be controlled? I don't remember seeing a requirement in the standard (AS9100).

7.5.1.3 Control of Production Equipment, Tools and Numerical Control (N.C.) Machine Programs

Production equipment, tools and programs shall be validated prior to use and maintained and inspected periodically according to documented procedures. Validation prior to production use shall include verification of the first article produced to the design data/specification

Pay attention: this requirement shall be documented.

I have lurked here for a long time, but this is my first post.

Controlling NC programs is something I am trying to do right now. In our manufacturing shop, a first piece of each production lot is inspected for conformance. The program is modified to match approved, revision controlled drawings.

With these two facts combined, is it still necessary to control each program as individual documents? We do not rely on any CNC programs to achieve quality.

Sorry if this is considered a thread hijack, but I didn't want to create a new thread for such a similar question. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

This would also fall under configuration management, in my opinion.

Amazing how a set of fresh eyes can put things into perspective. I have also been struggling with a CM procedure because we do not design and are not end-product manufacturers. This will allow me to set up a CM procedure to ensure that revision changes affect all stock, programs, drawings, travelers (prod. planning), and WIP.

With all of this being handled through a defined procedure, I am still unsure of how exactly to handle the NC program control. My current thought process tells me that with CM to ensure the programs are changed, and first piece inspections to ensure that the output matches specifications, I should be able to simply control programs by part number?

Thanks Coury, you have shed light on a dark spot in my mind. As you might have been able to discover I am new to AS9100 and trying to wrap my head around it. :thanx:

Amazing how a set of fresh eyes can put things into perspective. I have also been struggling with a CM procedure because we do not design and are not end-product manufacturers. This will allow me to set up a CM procedure to ensure that revision changes affect all stock, programs, drawings, travelers (prod. planning), and WIP.

With all of this being handled through a defined procedure, I am still unsure of how exactly to handle the NC program control. My current thought process tells me that with CM to ensure the programs are changed, and first piece inspections to ensure that the output matches specifications, I should be able to simply control programs by part number?

Thanks Coury, you have shed light on a dark spot in my mind. As you might have been able to discover I am new to AS9100 and trying to wrap my head around it. :thanx:

You are welcome. Now the question:

With all of this being handled through a defined procedure, I am still unsure of how exactly to handle the NC program control. My current thought process tells me that with CM to ensure the programs are changed, and first piece inspections to ensure that the output matches specifications, I should be able to simply control programs by part number?

This would be specified using the procedures that defines the controls. If the company decides to handle the control via part number than that would meet the intent of AS9100, in my opinion.

This would be specified using the procedures that defines the controls. If the company decides to handle the control via part number than that would meet the intent of AS9100, in my opinion.

At least, You shall establish the CNC program list to control status of all part number. whenever the CNC changed, the resivion updated.

Cool and powerful software exist for this, I think what you are looking for is called

"Direct or Distributive Numerical Control (DNC) Systems"

Hers is a link for your browsing pleasure

http://www.mmsonline.com/dp/mtg/byzone/Detail.cfm?ID=5980&zone=CS (http://www.mmsonline.com/dp/mtg/byzone/Detail.cfm?ID=5980&zone=CS)

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