Hi Covers..

Just want to share..
I had been hired by a small company as QA Engr and also acted as the MR.
During my 2nd month, we hired a consultant to help us with our ISO9001 certification. He helped us drafting the quality manual and 2nd level documents (12 procedures) and provided us forms which we needed to follow.

As I see him, this consultant is a unprofessional.
He doesnt even check whether the system is put up in place.
He conducted our Internal Audit, and just browsed our Design and Development Records commented that we correctly filed it.
He just drafted the documents. Other than that I think he is really not a help.

So here comes the time after document review, the auditor noted observations on 2 of the 2nd level documents (Quality Procedures) and some records. I asked him when he could come so we can discuss all of the observations and address it since its a week before the Initial Audit. His answer to me is he is currently conducting a training and will get back to me after it. Then the following day I called him up, he told me he cannot come and we will fix the observations during the audit itself since it is only the time he can get to our office!!! (Unbelievable!!!!).. so what I did, I just addressed all the observations without his help..

And now the Initial Audit comes, the auditor was so disappointed with the Design and Development. He saw many findings and luckily just gave us a minor NC, it could have been a major NC!

Wondering where is the consultant? well, i still want him to have some participation in closing our findings since we hired him. so what i did i sent him our answer to the findings, to let him check. I just don't know why he haven't replied to me now.

So now my boss is angry with the consultant because he seemed uprofessional to us. Do you think we could refund the consultant's fee? has anyone experienced this?

I think that the solution to your problem is in your contract with him. There must some clause about what his obligation towards you are, and what happens in case you aren't satisfied with his performance.
You might sue him.

Do you think we could refund the consultant's fee? has anyone experienced this?

First, do you mean whether you could 'with-hold' the consultant's fee?

Next, be sure you know the true meaning of 'consulting'. I am not sure of Singapore but in Malaysia, many pay consulting fees but expect the consultant to 'hand-hold' them or be spoon fed.

The payment is paid in installment terms during the consultancy period. I am not sure with our Finance if we had paid the last cheque.

Actually this is my first time to work with a consultant. His output is not as what we had expected. Initially it is not he who we interviewed but his boss. Since from the agreement, they must assist us preparatin until we get the certification, then he must do what is agreed.

Being spoonfed is not good, but lack of attention and commitment is worst!!!

I also do not want to be very dependent with the consultant because we are still responsible with our system..

There is no question that you should vigorously complain about the consultant's performance, but the even greater issue I see is that the one you interviewed sent a replacement. If you thought you were hiring guy #1 but instead got the buffoon, the matter is one approaching misrepresentation.

But since you did not outright fail your audit, you will need to carefully outline your grievances and how they fell short of what you were expecting to receive.

Once that list is made, review it against the contract carefully and prepare to present your grievances. Unless there is regulation of consultants in your area, getting a refund may be difficult.

Initially it is not he who we interviewed but his boss.
I would withhold any further payments and have the 'boss' over for a visit. The 'boss' may or may not know that his/her employee has not made you happy.

I understand about the lack of customer service from this person, but have a different spin on why you are in this situation;

In your OP it states the consulting company was brought in to help get you certified to ISO. Are you certified? Where there any majors that would prevent that? My point being, it seems to me that, in very simple terms, the consultant delivered to your (management's) requirements. You, personally may have a (legitimate) issue with his behaviours, but what did your management expect from him?

As with any supplier relationship, many issues of performance relate directly to how an organization chooses that supplier (cost, expertise, background, location etc.) and what is specified to be deliverable. Then, once the supplier is selected, performance monitoring becomes important.

Sure, he and his boss are culpable, and you should do as Marc suggests, but did your organization make clear what your expectations? Was it your intention to have them come back and help with non-conformities, which didn't prevent you from being certified?

Spot on Andy - I know this is a tricky area but some clients expect the consultant to do everything for them. The OP mentions that he prepared the manual, procedures and forms, it is largely up to the client organisation to implement the system under the guidance of the consultant.

...but did your organization make clear what your expectations? I agree, but over the years I have found most companies are not sure what they want (not to mention what they need). I have requested expected deliverables (or given them to the company myself) during contract review (before I {and they} accept the contact). I typically found that companies could not state deliverables, so I had to define deliverables for them. Expectations are another issue all together...

I have also found that the deliverables (and expectations) typically change, at least to some degree (sometimes quite a lot, actually), as the project progresses. Often its where the company did not allot adequate resources and everything got behind. For this reason I did project plans in Microsoft's 'Project' software. I kept a diary and notes of meetings, promises made (by the various company employees involved in the project and by me), and all that good stuff.

My response was based upon my experience and expectations, and that is an implementation consultant should follow everything that is being done by the client company very closely. On larger jobs I have gone through the time and expense to bring in outside auditors to 'check my work', to make sure I didn't miss something. Working closely with a company, one can look that 'independent' view point, which is in part why in large implementations I brought in outside auditors.

However, the client company has the obligation to voice concerns and complaints when they occur, and if (as appears to be the case here) the consultant is not responding to contact upper management in the consultant's company (usually there's a project manager in larger consultant companies).

From what I can tell, the OP got through the registration audit with only observations. To me that is sufficient as undoubtedly the 'main' deliverable was successful registration. As to follow up, that's part of why I say call the boss in to discuss the situation as it stands.

As to the consultant being 'unprofessional', well.... That can be very subjective. It could be a personality conflict. But again, if the client company was unhappy they should have voiced that concern to the consultant's 'boss' early on in the project.

For any budding consultants out there (and some who claim they already are) Marc's description is what we/they should all be doing, as professional, responsible people.

Consultant's hold the key to ISO implementation, for those businesses who (by the very nature of the situation) don't know what they need.

Mature/experienced consultants lay out the basics up front - and run the risk that the client will choose a lower cost provider or 'chicken out' and do it another way!

I'm not sure about the maturity and culture of other world markets in this respect, but I know that if I was looking for a sports coach for my team, and I had two to choose from, the guy with the 'play book' and some examples of results he go with some other teams vs the guy who claims to write play books - I know which one I'd go with!

Do stop all further payments. You have already communicated your issues. Now sit back and wait for the consultant to come to you with a reply or for payment.

Most likely your contract says that one last instalment of consultancy fees is payable on certification. And most likely you are certified - so it is now payable. But it can be safely withheld pending resolution of your issues.

Another sincere advise. Consider scrapping and rewriting the QMS if necessary. Have you got a readymade bunch of documents with ' Find and replace <Company> with your company's name' as the instruction. Is your QMS properly designed to manage your working by your own assessment (forget the third party)? If you think you need a rewrite, do it on priority before people get used to this QMS. You will need to sell the idea to your management.

I have assumed too many things and stated them bluntly as these are the facts of life. Andy has put them rather mildly. I will be happy for you if they are not true in your case and the QMS is not botched up to need a rewrite.

Actually my boss had just complained to the consultant's director (whom we had first met and interviewed before) about his behavior. We are waiting on how they will handle this customer complaint. Well they should know how considering they teach principles on customer communication and all. :notme:
I hope we could refund at least 50% of our payments.


And of course, our first objective is to get the certification. Although I see some lack of commitment from this consultant because he is too preoccupied with his other projects, it doesn't mean that our certification will be doomed.


About the operating procedures.. Yes, I am currently revising it due to some errors and wanting to simplify it further..

A refund of 50% - for what? As you stated, you achieved your objective of getting certification - first time. As for the consultant being involved in other projects, of course he is, unless you were paying for all of his time otherwise he could not earn a decent income. As a consultant I have any number of projects on the go at any one time and it is up to me to agree with my clients when we will meet up. They all understand that I am involved in other jobs.

Just throwing in my 2 cents:

Does your contract with the consultant have a structure like the appendix to the ISO 10019?

If it does, that should help clear up the 'expectations' vs. service delivered to your company.

Dyeysi ask if unsatisfied client can withhold the consultant's fee? :rolleyes: hmm...

:cool: My answer: :yes: “YES”, specifically if stated in your contract… and :nope: “NO” if the consultant performed in accordance with the contract…

Next question? :)