I am working with a client who is in the process of getting registered to ANSI Z10. The process should be completed with a month or two.

Is anyone else preparing for registration to ANSI Z10?

My research found only one company (STR-R) that has been accredited to certify to ANSI Z10. Is this true?

Kales your research is about as correct as can be. I am personally invloved in the OHS-MS field (I teach 18001 across N. America for a large training and system registration company) and nobody is doing Z10....I'm hardly ever asked about it. Why, you ask? Outside of the 3 mile limit Z10 doesn't have relevvancy or recognition (it's an "AMERICAN" standard). OHSAS 18001:2007 is recognized as an international OHS standard and is "the" national standard for OHS in many countries globally.

Why would your client want to do something nobody is paying attention to? Do them a favor and recommend that they put in place a system that won't have people going "Huh? What's that?".

Z10 is a good document and has some very good features, but one of them isn't its use.

Why would your client want to do something nobody is paying attention to?Elementary, my dear Watson.:tg:

The organization that Kees is helping is very likely one of the many US corporations that helped developing the ANSI Z-10 document. Now, all of those organizations must be feeling the pressure to have the document deployed, including certification.

After all, a lot of effort was spent on deliberating on the Z-10 standard. We were determined to show the Europeans what a OHSMS standard should be.:notme:

After all, a lot of effort was spent on deliberating on the Z-10 standard. We were determined to show the Europeans what a OHSMS standard should be.:notme:

Yep, and the check is in the mail and I'll respect you in the morning:lol:

I'll be glad to do their audit:yes:

You know as well as I do that clients are beating down the door wanting Z10 training and registration services and that we're strained to meet the overwhelming demand:sarcasm:

So, you think that all those countless hours and meetings deliberating on the ANSI Z-10 will go to waste, without a fight? Have you seen some of the corporations behind the Z-10 development? Some pretty big names.

Obviously, there will be political pressure for Z-10 deployment in the US. And somebody gotta be the first one.

So, you think that all those countless hours and meetings deliberating on the ANSI Z-10 will go to waste, without a fight? Have you seen some of the corporations behind the Z-10 development? Some pretty big names.

Obviously, there will be political pressure for Z-10 deployment in the US. And somebody gotta be the first one.


Guess who was a small contributor as well:D

Many of those same big names are deploying OHSAS 18001 in lieu of Z10. Why? Because of the reasons cited above.

Besides, what political pressure? From ANSI or the AIHA?

What are they gonna fight for, part of the revenue potential?

It seems kinda odd that one of the organizations that helped nix an ISO Health & Safety standard because of "too many standards/requirements....business opposition....employee barganing unit opposition.....excessive burden, cost...etc..." developes its own national standard.

At the 2004 ASSE convention in Las Vegas during a seminar I challenged representatives of the Z10 committee on the same stuff I wrote above (in front of about 200+ people) and the dudes couldn't and didn't deny it. I specifically asked if ANSI was in such opposition to an international standard weren't they just trying to cash in on some of the business with theirs and that outside the 3 mile limit the Z10 would lack acceptance and recognition. Stunned silence! End of meeting. (I wasn't employed by my present employer at the time so there was no hankey pankey on my part)

Those dudes got up in front of eveyone and specifically stated that there was "no recognized international standard for health and safety management and that ANSI and the AIHA had jumped forward to meet the need for the USA". Well, they were correct,there was no "standard" but there was an internationally recognized "specification" (which I pointed out), and continued that it truly was an international document because of the orgaizations that had participated in its development (many by name..you guys included).

So back to the OP....My friend, charge ahead with what you are being asked to do.

Besides, what political pressure? From ANSI or the AIHA?Maybe that regulatory agency called OSHA. Or that other one called NIOSH.What are they gonna fight for, part of the revenue potential?ANSI and ANAB might have revenue interests. The others would have to justify why so much effort was spent on developing something that apparently is going nowhere. It seems kinda odd that one of the organizations that helped nix an ISO Health & Safety standard because of "too many standards/requirements....business opposition....employee barganing unit opposition.....excessive burden, cost...etc..." developes its own national standard. I agree with that assessment. In my personal estimation, some of the US Industry resent the "ISO standard development process" because it is perceived to be an European thing. And the decision to vote down an ISO OHSMS document was a way to show "them" that enough is enough...

I agree with that assessment. In my personal estimation, some of the US Industry resent the "ISO standard development process" because it is perceived to be an European thing. And the decision to vote down an ISO OHSMS document was a way to show "them" that enough is enough...

Sidney,

Is it possible that fear of liability exposure could have been an issue?

A good example of this is clause 6.4 "Work Environment" in ISO 9001:2000 that was watered down to almost nothing.....:(

Stijloor.

Is it possible that fear of liability exposure could have been an issue? could you please elaborate how having an International Standard would expose organizations more to legal issues, than having an American Standard?A good example of this is clause 6.4 "Work Environment" in ISO 9001:2000 that was watered down to almost nothing....Sorry, but I don't follow. What part of ISO 9001 6.4 has been removed? What more do you think it should be there, from a product conformity perspective?

Maybe that regulatory agency called OSHA. Or that other one called NIOSH. OSHA couldn't give a rat's fanny,their focus is compliance and NIOSH has no regulatory oversight so who cares what they want.

ANSI and ANAB might have revenue interests. I got a head nod and a smile to the affirmative when I asked that one.

The others would have to justify why so much effort was spent on developing something that apparently is going nowhere. I agree with that assessment. In my personal estimation, some of the US Industry resent the "ISO standard development process" because it is perceived to be an European thing. And the decision to vote down an ISO OHSMS document was a way to show "them" that enough is enough...


There are a couple of things I like about Z10, like the format that has guidance on the right side of the page and the requirements on the left. I like the appendix section as well...pretty good stuff. I don't like its wishy-washy specification of responsibility for health and safety in the workplace (the behavior based safety crowd/cult did the touchy-feely thing here).

There are a couple of things I like about Z10, like the format that has guidance on the right side of the page and the requirements on the left. I like the appendix section as well...pretty good stuff. I don't like its wishy-washy specification of responsibility for health and safety in the workplace (the behavior based safety crowd/cult did the touchy-feely thing here).
:topic: Your use of nested quotes and remarks inside and outside the quoted material makes it difficult to tell who's saying what.

OSHA couldn't give a rat's fanny,their focus is compliance and NIOSH has no regulatory oversight so who cares what they want. So, if OSHA has no interest on the Z-10 standard, why were they represented in the writing committee? Same with NIOSH. I disagree with you on that one. OSHA might even incorporate Z-10 as part of the OSHA VPP program, enticing US organizations to deploy the ANSI standard, deflating the OHSAS 18001 bubble.

Sid, I see more US organizations going with 18K than VPP (some have both). NIOSH isn't regulatory and it's under the CDC.

How is OSHA going to entice organizations, offer a door prize? 38 years after the Williams-Steiger Act of 1970 and Public Law 91-596 OSHA can't even force compliance without the courts and such, much less entice voluntary compliance to an ambiguous management process.

Sid, I come from the realm of OSHA compliance management (I learned it in California working for Lockheed, ITT and the US Army, just as I did environmental compliance). Z10, though nice, was dead on arrival. There may be some onesy's and twosy's but there isn't going to be thousands.

Since I believe that this is a subject that many should be involved in, I guess I will finally get off my butt and chime in on.

18001 is gaining a lot more steam in the real business world, at least from where I sit. A lot of us were interested in the Z10 standard when it first came about, but interest has waned significantly, especially those of us who are in, or moving to, global business. At this point, for those of us who have worked our tails off getting internationally recognized business systems put into place it seems to be a step backwards to register a quality system to a standard that is not recognized outside of our country...or even not recognized in our country.

Now, I am not saying that we don't have an excellent safety program, we do. But, it is our (and I'm sure a lot of others) position that if we are going to go through yet another audit scheme, we would like it to be an international standard.:2cents:

Just to add the opinions, thoughts and comments of a working woman.;) Disclaimer: these opinions may, or may not reflect the decisions and opinions of upper management, dependent upon many factors.

You're right on Steel. :agree1:

I'll teach and audit Z10 just like I do 18001 and have been prepared to do so for over 2 years now....there ain't much happening.:nope:

I am being swamped with 18001 by itself and as a piece of an integrated system.

About a year ago, I had attached, an article providing insight on how ANSI Z-10 might come to the forefront. The article is available in the post http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=143899&postcount=5

Not much has changed since then, in terms of Z-10 deployment.

could you please elaborate how having an International Standard would expose organizations more to legal issues, than having an American Standard?I had never heard of the standard (I don't get out much, I know) :rolleyes: so I did search and found this article: Legal Perspectives on ANSI Z10 (http://www.asse.org/practicespecialties/international/docs/92ArticleaboutZ10LegalPerspectives.pdf).

I had never heard of the standard (I don't get out much, I know) :rolleyes: so I did search and found this article: Legal Perspectives on ANSI Z10 (http://www.asse.org/practicespecialties/international/docs/92ArticleaboutZ10LegalPerspectives.pdf).

There isn't one thing in the attached document that wasn't already being addressed by 18001. OHSAS 18001 meets the same criteria and actually embraces OHSA stronger when it defines managements responsibilities.

I like the little ending on page 6....

In summary, ANSI Z10 provides safety and health professionals with a significant new tool to help enhance existing program design or to help smaller employers create a program that can protect workers while at the same time satisfying regulatory entities and insurers, effectuating cost savings and minimizing legal liability.

It really isn't that "new". It's basically a re-package of 18001 with the cushiness of ILO OHSM-2001.

AIHA/ANSI have not made their case for Z10 over 18001, just look at the numbers. At every course I teach (public or onsite, and I go to more than the "Mom & Pop's"), I ask why 18001 is being used over Z10 and the answer is always the same...acceptability and recognition both inside and outside the US.......Z10 = Yugo.

As I previously stated, there are some aspects of Z10 that I like (guidance on the same page as requirements and the Appendice's A-K), I even recommended in my comments to the OHSAS 18001:2007 working group on the draft that 18001 adopt a similar format....it was a no-go.

The ANSI/AIHA Z-10 has been "kicked off" and is currently being requested by many companies in the US. We are the first company in the US to be ANSI-Z10 certified by ANAB and it has added value to our company for the purpose of promoting health & safety to all the employess. It is oriented to participation of employees and that has added the most value of all. We were mandated to comply to the 18001 standard as well so we have a clear opinion of which standard works best for us. If you read the contributors to the ANSI vs 18001 standard, you will see that the ANSI standard had more credible industries including OSHA,to generate the guidelines.

Congrats on your acheivement. Putting together these systems is always a lot of work. I do have a question though. The standard was released in 2005 and the first company to gain certification was May 2008? Or the first company certified by your registrar? I just wanted to make sure that I was reading all this correctly. http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/080521/143235.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/080521/143235.html)

Again, thanks for joining us, and job well done.

The ANSI/AIHA Z-10 has been "kicked off" and is currently being requested by many companies in the US. Can you name what organizations are requesting Z10 certification? We are the first company in the US to be ANSI-Z10 certified by ANABThat can't be right. ANAB is an Accreditation Body. They do not certify anyone. They accredit Certification Bodies, who certify organizations to the standard.

We are the first company in the US to be ANSI-Z10 certified by ANAB... As I mentioned before, ANAB does not certify organizations to Z-10, but, in an unusual move, ANAB is actively promoting this certification (http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/ANAB-Z10.pdf). Obviously ANAB would like to see other CB's applying for accreditation to this standard.

In follow-up to my post from June 9th.

Our client has been recommended for ANSI Z10 registration by STR-R (accredited by ANSI ASQ National Accreditation Board, ANAB) and will also receive registration to 18001. The registration audit was completed without non-conformances.

We made a gap analysis between ANSI Z10 and 18001 and prepared the management system of our client to meet both standards. The management system now meets the requirements of both standards.

This client is a steel mill on 1,000 acres (or 400 hectares), about 700 employees, operating on 4 on / 4 off 12 hour shift pattern. As as I know, this is the second location in the USA that has been recommended for ANSI Z10 registration.

We are proud to have assisted our client to implement an Occupational Health and Safety management system for such a large site and environment with many hazards.

I had never heard of the standard (I don't get out much, I know) :rolleyes: so I did search and found this article: Legal Perspectives on ANSI Z10 (http://www.asse.org/practicespecialties/international/docs/92ArticleaboutZ10LegalPerspectives.pdf).

I read this article. It is not dated (and probably outdated). Be careful with information found on the internet (especially if it is not dated, many sites do this to get viewers to read old stuff, Bankrate and CNNmoney do this for sure).

There is an accreditation scheme for ANSI-Z10 (ANAB) and companies are being recommended for registration by accredited registrars.

As far as I know, there is no accreditation scheme for OHSAS 18001.

As far as I know, there is no accreditation scheme for OHSAS 18001.A number of Accreditation Bodies have accreditation programs for OHSAS 18001, including the the Dutch RvA.

ANAB has recently announced a 3 for 1 OHS Accreditation Program. A CB can get accredited for 3 separate OHS Management System Standards. Check ANAB Heads Up # 123. Accreditation for CSA Z1000 and BS OHSAS 18001 - Special Offer for Early Applications (http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/HeadsUp/HU123.pdf) already mentioned in another thread.

Now, I could speculate about this change of stance over offering an accreditation program for OHSAS 18001. But, I don't think I should...:cool:

ANAB has recently announced a 3 for 1 OHS Accreditation Program. A CB can get accredited for 3 separate OHS Management System Standards. Check ANAB Heads Up # 123. Accreditation for CSA Z1000 and BS OHSAS 18001 - Special Offer for Early Applications (http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/HeadsUp/HU123.pdf) already mentioned in another thread.The window of opportunity is still open: ANAB HU# 134. Expanded OHSMS Program (http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/HeadsUp/HU134.pdf)