Hello all:)

I have a question regarding approving suppliers. We recently had a survailence audit where the audit made an observation that, our Supplier Survey is too long and ask questions that don't really matter to us.
We took a look at our Survey and our procedure for approving suppliers.

Our survey is 5 pages long that asks you everything you could imagine about your company. On the front page of the survey we say if you are certified to ISO, AS9100, or NADCAP approved fill out page one, sign page 5, and attach a copy or your Cert.

Our procedure says a supplier will be allowed on the list by submitting a survey. Continual approval will be by maintaining their score above our minimum supplier score. If they are taken off as an approved supplier the President has the freedom to use them by signing the Purchasing Requistion.

We basically use the survey to retrieve contact information to enter into our approved supplier list. We do not approve or disapprove a supplier based on their survey response. We use them and keep them based on there ability to provide good product on time. If we have an issue where parts are not acceptable we RTV them and request CA. Per our precedure they have the option to not answer the CA if they re-submit a new lot of parts that are accepted. If they do neither of the two we don't pay the invoice and get parts from another supplier.

My questions to all of you fine folks is the following.

1) Do I need a supplier survey?
2) Can my criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation be; (selection)fill out a contact information questionnaire, (evaluation) continually provide acceptable product on time meeting our set minimun score, (re-evaluation) review the quarterly reports of supplier scores?

Interesting observation by your auditor. If your survey works for you and it meets the minimum requirements, why does it matter how long it is?

1) Do I need a supplier survey?

I don't think so but they are typically used as an alternative to on-site surveillance.

2) Can my criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation be; (selection)fill out a contact information questionnaire, (evaluation) continually provide acceptable product on time meeting our set minimun score, (re-evaluation) review the quarterly reports of supplier scores?

I would add that you need to keep adequate records of all that activity and that you need to take/request positive corrective action when performance falls below established limits.

Per our precedure they have the option to not answer the CA if they re-submit a new lot of parts that are accepted.

I do see a potential problem with this policy. How do you and/or your supplier address root cause corrective action and recurrence prevention?

Hello all:)

I have a question regarding approving suppliers. We recently had a survailence audit where the audit made an observation that, our Supplier Survey is too long and ask questions that don't really matter to us.
We took a look at our Survey and our procedure for approving suppliers.

I think the auditor (I am assuming that it is the Registrar's) seems to think it is too long, but I wouldn't worry about changing the procedure/survey. I also don't feel it could lead to NC further down the road. That is the survey that the organization has decided to use.

Our survey is 5 pages long that asks you everything you could imagine about your company. On the front page of the survey we say if you are certified to ISO, AS9100, or NADCAP approved fill out page one, sign page 5, and attach a copy or your Cert.

I don't think that survey is too long in my opinion.

Our procedure says a supplier will be allowed on the list by submitting a survey. Continual approval will be by maintaining their score above our minimum supplier score. If they are taken off as an approved supplier the President has the freedom to use them by signing the Purchasing Requistion.

If that is how it is written, then so shall it be. That meets the intent of the standard in my opinion.

We basically use the survey to retrieve contact information to enter into our approved supplier list. We do not approve or disapprove a supplier based on their survey response. We use them and keep them based on there ability to provide good product on time. If we have an issue where parts are not acceptable we RTV them and request CA. Per our precedure they have the option to not answer the CA if they re-submit a new lot of parts that are accepted. If they do neither of the two we don't pay the invoice and get parts from another supplier.

As long as it it specified in the terms of the purchase order.

My questions to all of you fine folks is the following.

1) Do I need a supplier survey?
2) Can my criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation be; (selection)fill out a contact information questionnaire, (evaluation) continually provide acceptable product on time meeting our set minimun score, (re-evaluation) review the quarterly reports of supplier scores?

I believe I may have answered your questions.

Hello all:)

I have a question regarding approving suppliers. We recently had a survailence audit where the audit made an observation that, our Supplier Survey is too long and ask questions that don't really matter to us.
We took a look at our Survey and our procedure for approving suppliers.

Our survey is 5 pages long that asks you everything you could imagine about your company. On the front page of the survey we say if you are certified to ISO, AS9100, or NADCAP approved fill out page one, sign page 5, and attach a copy or your Cert.

Our procedure says a supplier will be allowed on the list by submitting a survey. Continual approval will be by maintaining their score above our minimum supplier score. If they are taken off as an approved supplier the President has the freedom to use them by signing the Purchasing Requistion.

We basically use the survey to retrieve contact information to enter into our approved supplier list. We do not approve or disapprove a supplier based on their survey response. We use them and keep them based on there ability to provide good product on time. If we have an issue where parts are not acceptable we RTV them and request CA. Per our precedure they have the option to not answer the CA if they re-submit a new lot of parts that are accepted. If they do neither of the two we don't pay the invoice and get parts from another supplier.

My questions to all of you fine folks is the following.

1) Do I need a supplier survey?
2) Can my criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation be; (selection)fill out a contact information questionnaire, (evaluation) continually provide acceptable product on time meeting our set minimun score, (re-evaluation) review the quarterly reports of supplier scores?


Some thoughts, as an auditor first, and a consultant second.

1. What you describe should not lead to an NC, if that is your concern (except for item 4 below).

2. If it asks questions that you really don't care about, then you are wasting your suppliers' time. That really irritates suppliers. It is one of their primary gripes to me. ISO is trying to reduce waste. Remove any questions that are not value-added.

3. I like the idea that they can just answer a few question and sign if they are certified. That should be clear on the first page.

4. DON'T let a supplier be on your list just because they filled out a form. That is not evaluating suppliers. That merely becaomes an application. Your form should be a tool to help you review whether you want to consider this supplier further, then an appropriate evaluation should be made, based on what you determine is useful and necessary.

5. To your question #2, I would think you would want to at least evaluate some initial shipments, before you qualify them. Then, ongoing monitoring would be useful.

6. Just sending a new lot does not resolve the corrective action, in most cases, unless it is a minor issue. Formal CA should be used when appropriate.

Answering to the survey gets them added to the list in a "probationary status" They reach "approved" status after their first couple of shipments without incident. The way our purchasing procedure is written is Purchasing can not buy from a supplier that is not on the list.

We mainly send the survey out to retrieve quality contact information, certs if applicable, things like that.
We use serveral 1 man machine shops that have no quality management system in place to standards. So he can fill the survey out with all no's and still be approved as a supplier based on quality of product, delivery, and price.

Answering to the survey gets them added to the list in a "probationary status" They reach "approved" status after their first couple of shipments without incident. The way our purchasing procedure is written is Purchasing can not buy from a supplier that is not on the list.

We mainly send the survey out to retrieve quality contact information, certs if applicable, things like that.
We use serveral 1 man machine shops that have no quality management system in place to standards. So he can fill the survey out with all no's and still be approved as a supplier based on quality of product, delivery, and price.

Excellent! That is more appropriate. You might also want to consider whether urgent needs can allow you to buy some things without the whole deal, especially if it can be measured like a machined part.

With a 1 man machine shop, you start verging into artisan concepts, rather than manufacturing. It would be up to you to decide if you want to modify some procedures to allow for that.

For example, if you hired me as a consultant, it should be based on what you percieve my skills to be. If you made me fill out a 5 page form, I might not be real pleased about that.

Make the tools and methods suit the situation, but it sounds like you are on the right track.

Thank you all. I have to revise two procedures and our survey today.

Helmut- It's funny you say that about you having to do one if you were our consultant. Our auditor gave us a minor for not having himself and our registrar on our ASL as apporoved suppliers.

Thank you all. I have to revise two procedures and our survey today.

Helmut- It's funny you say that about you having to do one if you were our consultant. Our auditor gave us a minor for not having himself and our registrar on our ASL as apporoved suppliers.

wow, are there still auditors out there doing that? I thought we got past that in the 90's...:( I would apply it to suppliers where it is value-added, and allow management to make an occasional appropriate management decision.

So here's a question for everyone.

Who should be on the approved supplier list?

So here's a question for everyone.

Who should be on the approved supplier list?

In my opinion:

Any supplier that performs a service except Office Supplies and miscellaneous supplies (Janitorial, etc.). This might be extreme, but that is how I have set up the list.

In my opinion:

Any supplier that performs a service except Office Supplies and miscellaneous supplies (Janitorial, etc.). This might be extreme, but that is how I have set up the list.

Coury
Do you have your Registra on your list?

Coury
Do you have your Registra on your list?

That I don't. I rely on the OASIS Database as my approval status.

I understand that, but do you have them as an approved supplier on your ASL as an approved supplier to certify your QMS?

I understand that, but do you have them as an approved supplier on your ASL as an approved supplier to certify your QMS?

No, I do not list them.

You should.

Back to the original topic. You are required to EVALUATE suppliers. "The organization shall EVALUATE and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements."

It would seen that submitting a survey in of itself would not really qualify as an evaluation. This would most certainly be weak at best. The survey should be used by someone in authority to complete the evaluation.

I guess I should complete the thought from the standard. "Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the evaluations and any necessary evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4)."

1. No. But it is awkward to function without one.
2. No. You do need to control them. The control needs to be appropriate for the nature of what you are purchasing and how it effect final product. It could be argued that ISO registered companies would be easier to control.

Think of the ISO standard as a rule book. If you are both using the same rule book (and applying it effectively), it is easier to understand each other. Think of going to the park on a Saturday afternoon to play ball. You have softball in mind. After gathering other players, you discover that some are trying to play soccer, some are trying to play football, a few are trying to play softball, and a few are trying to play hardball. How functional do you think those relationships will be?

According to AS9100B, you must estalish the Approved supplier list including the approved scope.So question 1 is YES.

According to AS9100B, you must estalish the Approved supplier list including the approved scope.So question 1 is YES.

In AS, that is correct, and this thread is about AS. The question I responded to was ISO, and for ISO, the answer is no, an ASL in NOT required.

You should.

Back to the original topic. You are required to EVALUATE suppliers. "The organization shall EVALUATE and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements."

It would seen that submitting a survey in of itself would not really qualify as an evaluation. This would most certainly be weak at best. The survey should be used by someone in authority to complete the evaluation.

I guess I should complete the thought from the standard. "Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the evaluations and any necessary evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4)."
We are entering the AS9100 registration process and are receiving assistance from a consultant and are going with our current ISO registrar, so this subject brings up two questions for me:
a) Do we need to show any evidence of certification or professional accreditation of the consultant, if they are providing training services?
b) It appears that one opinion is that the OASIS data base along with a third party accreditation of the registrars is not enough evidence of evaluation, am I understanding this correctly? If so why not?
I can see the point of having the registrar listed on the ASL, no confusion there.

Thanks for your insights.

Dear All,


In clause 7.4.1, what is the meaning and how to fulfill requirement stated in below mentioned requirement.

" ensure where required that both the organization and all suppliers use customer approved special process sources."
For an example if I am having my workplace in India and outsource any special process like welding a frame, electroplating, soldering etc. to sub-contractor, any my customer is in Europe or US. How he can suggest me suppliers in my city.

Can anybody help me.

Regards

Ajay

Dear All,


In clause 7.4.1, what is the meaning and how to fulfill requirement stated in below mentioned requirement.

" ensure where required that both the organization and all suppliers use customer approved special process sources."
For an example if I am having my workplace in India and outsource any special process like welding a frame, electroplating, soldering etc. to sub-contractor, any my customer is in Europe or US. How he can suggest me suppliers in my city.

Can anybody help me.

Regards

Ajay

I'm not an aerospace expert, but I think the key words are "where required." The clause you quoted doesn't require you to use customer-approved suppliers for special processes, it just says that when a customer does specify a particular supplier, you have to make sure that your company and all of your suppliers honor the requirement.

Dear All,


In clause 7.4.1, what is the meaning and how to fulfill requirement stated in below mentioned requirement.

" ensure where required that both the organization and all suppliers use customer approved special process sources."
For an example if I am having my workplace in India and outsource any special process like welding a frame, electroplating, soldering etc. to sub-contractor, any my customer is in Europe or US. How he can suggest me suppliers in my city.

Can anybody help me.

Regards

Ajay

When Jim stated this:

...but I think the key words are "where required." The clause you quoted doesn't require you to use customer-approved suppliers for special processes, it just says that when a customer does specify a particular supplier, you have to make sure that your company and all of your suppliers honor the requirement.

He is correct. The requirements would usually be passed down via the Purchase Order/Contract (and sometimes specified on the Customer's drawing) to use a specific supplier for a special process. This clause, as I interpret it, means: in the event that the customer specifically states to use a process supplier from their approved list, the supplier (you), must assure that this supplier is used, which also would be passed down to any other tiers that are involved.