My boss is asking me, need your help - Is there a GM requirement for moving tooling from one plant to another?

My boss is asking me, need your help - Is there a GM requirement for moving tooling from one plant to another?

I don't know about GM-specific requirements, but there is a PPAP requirement for notification to the customer. See the AIAG PPAP manual, 4th Edition, page 13, #4.

This could have something to do with a foreign country. Like sending it from one country to another.

This could have something to do with a foreign country. Like sending it from one country to another.

What could? Do you mean your situation? If that's the case, you had better talk to your customer before you do anything. In fact, page 13 of the PPAP 4th Edition PPAP manual says, (regarding requirements for customer notification):
Upon notification and approval of the proposed change by the authorized customer representative, and after change implementation, PPAP submission is required unless otherwise specified.
(Emphasis in the original)

What this means is that the proposed change must be approved by your customer before it takes place.

He is not telling me anything. I am having to guess. I'll start reading and asking questions. Thanks for the help.

Jim,
Ok I have looked at PPAP, next question - is there a requirement that says that GM has to come in and look to see that the machine is making parts to spec or send someone in at our cost?

Jim,
Ok I have looked at PPAP, next question - is there a requirement that says that GM has to come in and look to see that the machine is making parts to spec or send someone in at our cost?

Do you have a copy of GM's CSRs? That's where you should be looking. Sending someone in to "see that the machine is making parts to spec" is called "run at rate," and there may well be a requirement for it in your situation. I don't know.

Yes sir, I understand that, and I have read my GM customer specifics and did not find anything. GM has things that are not necessarily written in CSR.

Yes sir, I understand that, and I have read my GM customer specifics and did not find anything. GM has things that are not necessarily written in CSR.

If it's not in the CSRs, and it's not in any of the AIAG stuff, and it's not in any of your contracts (purchase orders, e.g.) then it's not binding on you. I understand that sometimes it's necessary to appease unreasonable customers (and GM can be very unreasonable), but if you're concerned about requirements that aren't documented, you'll have to go to the source. Send something in writing to the "authorized customer representative" (usually someone in purchasing) telling them what your plans are and ask what you need to do.

Thank you for your help and prompt answers.

Thank you for your help and prompt answers.

You're welcome. I hope this turns out OK for you. :D

Whenver ther is a tool move you need to submit the PPAP.
This PPAP Includes capabilities, A-B comparisons layout submissions, etc.

There are two scenarios.

1. If the tool is being moved within the plant, then you need to contact your current SQEs and submit the PPAP to them.

2. If the tool is being moved from one plant to another, then you need to contact BTAB (Bussiness transfer approval board) SQEs and have to submit the PPAP to them.

Whenver ther is a tool move you need to submit the PPAP.
The PPAP manual, which I quoted in an earlier post, indicates that notification is required (to the "authorized customer representative") and PPAP is required unless otherwise specified. This means that there may be instance where PPAP is not required, at the discretion of the customer. These instances will probably be rare, but we can't say with certainty that PPAP is will be required.


This PPAP Includes capabilities, A-B comparisons layout submissions, etc.

There are two scenarios.

1. If the tool is being moved within the plant, then you need to contact your current SQEs and submit the PPAP to them.

2. If the tool is being moved from one plant to another, then you need to contact BTAB (Bussiness transfer approval board) SQEs and have to submit the PPAP to them.

Where is this documented?

2. If the tool is being moved from one plant to another, then you need to contact BTAB (Bussiness transfer approval board) SQEs and have to submit the PPAP to them.

Hello,
I think Narayana is right about the BTAB process, all the information to be filled out and submitted to the board is in the www.gmsupplypower.com; I use to work for a company where one entire line was moved from one plant to another within the same city and they needed to submit BTAB questionnaire and got GM approval before starting the process; of course first of all the SQE was contacted for guidance and formal customer notification of the change was sent before start BTAB process.
AC

There are two scenarios.

1. If the tool is being moved within the plant, then you need to contact your current SQEs and submit the PPAP to them.

2. If the tool is being moved from one plant to another, then you need to contact BTAB (Business transfer approval board) SQEs and have to submit the PPAP to them.

Where is this documented?

Scenario 2 is documented in GM1700 - GMNA Regional Supply Chain Requirements.

However, Scenario 1, as written, is incorrect -- we can't notify the customer every time a tool is moved within the plant under normal conditions. (Although I suppose there may be categories of tools where there is such a requirement). The requirement is to notify after modification or repairs or long-term inactivity or if the change affects "fit, form, function, performance, durability", as documented in section 3 of the PPAP Manual itself.

Tool movement within the same plant was included in Table I.3.3 of PPAP 3rd edition, "Situations where customer notification is not required". This table was deleted in the 4th ed., however that does not now make notification in this case mandatory.

B.G. Wiehle

Yes.
That is correct,
But it all depends on what you think as tool.
Ex:
If you are moving a small material mixture from one place to another then it is not required to notify.

Scenario 2 is documented in GM1700 - GMNA Regional Supply Chain Requirements.

However, Scenario 1, as written, is incorrect -- we can't notify the customer every time a tool is moved within the plant under normal conditions. (Although I suppose there may be categories of tools where there is such a requirement). The requirement is to notify after modification or repairs or long-term inactivity or if the change affects "fit, form, function, performance, durability", as documented in section 3 of the PPAP Manual itself.

Tool movement within the same plant was included in Table I.3.3 of PPAP 3rd edition, "Situations where customer notification is not required". This table was deleted in the 4th ed., however that does not now make notification in this case mandatory.

B.G. Wiehle

Excellent post and explanation.

May I add a simple suggestion?

When in doubt, contact the authorized customer representative.

I am contantly amazed by the fact that suppliers are so hesitant (scared?) to talk to the customer. (Re: many posts here at the The Cove.)

Stijloor.

Excellent post and explanation.

May I add a simple suggestion?

When in doubt, contact the authorized customer representative.

I am contantly amazed by the fact that suppliers are so hesitant (scared?) to talk to the customer. (Re: many posts here at the The Cove.)

Stijloor.


I'm surprised in some instances, but not when it comes to automotive OEMs. Getting someone to return a call, let alone make a decision, is like pulling teeth.

I'm surprised in some instances, but not when it comes to automotive OEMs. Getting someone to return a call, let alone make a decision, is like pulling teeth.

The quickest way to get a response form a customer is to "threaten" them with delaying shipments. :D But then again...that can be held against you.:mg:

All kidding aside, I believe that in the initial Contract Review/APQP stages, it should be determined precisely who and in what manner communication should proceed. There are various provisions in ISO and ISO/TS. The supplier would be wise to record all events of communication difficulties, adding these to PPAP records in case the "doodoo" hits the fan.

Stijloor.