We ordered 2024 aluminum round T4 temper.
The supplier sent us T351 temper with a note on the cert that says:
AS9100B:2004 This material meets the requirements of T4 temper and QQ-A-225/6E Ammendment 1 (CANCELLED)

We called to ask what this means as we don't follow AS9100.
The explanation that we got was the T351 meets the requirements of T4 and then some. That T351 is stress relieved where T4 may or may not be.
Thus, if the actual physicals meet the ASTM requirement we can use T351 for our application as it has the same properties.

My question is - did I understand this correctly? I want to be sure before I have to put something in our system that says T351 that meets the ASTM mechanicals can be used in place of T4.

The secondary question (for anyone, not just aluminum experts) would be - how would you handle this in your system if your drawings, PO's, and incoming QA database all call out for T4 with no provision for T351?
It's a lot of work to go back and make a change.
If you were an auditor would a note on the cert delaring equivalency fly?

We ordered 2024 aluminum round T4 temper.
The supplier sent us T351 temper with a note on the cert that says:


We called to ask what this means as we don't follow AS9100.
The explanation that we got was the T351 meets the requirements of T4 and then some. That T351 is stress relieved where T4 may or may not be.
Thus, if the actual physicals meet the ASTM requirement we can use T351 for our application as it has the same properties.

My question is - did I understand this correctly? I want to be sure before I have to put something in our system that says T351 that meets the ASTM mechanicals can be used in place of T4.

The secondary question (for anyone, not just aluminum experts) would be - how would you handle this in your system if your drawings, PO's, and incoming QA database all call out for T4 with no provision for T351?
It's a lot of work to go back and make a change.
If you were an auditor would a note on the cert delaring equivalency fly?

If what you're ordering is 2024 T4 per ASTMxxxx, your material supplier is obliged to provide the data required to verify that the ASTM standard has been met, or tell you in advance that he won't certify as you require. "Don't worry, it meets the standard" should never be an acceptable response.

First let me state that if they as the certifiers "belive"it complies then they should certify to your PO requiremetns with out exception. Any deviations or noncompliances should have your approval before they ship.

That being said what they are stating is correct as I remember .

I think the T4 is naturaly aged and the T351 is stress relived by stretching. But it would not be the first time I am wrong. I will defer to one of the experts here on the cove.
:2cents:

If what you're ordering is 2024 T4 per ASTMxxxx, your material supplier is obliged to provide the data required to verify that the ASTM standard has been met, or tell you in advance that he won't certify as you require. "Don't worry, it meets the standard" should never be an acceptable response.

Oh - we have certs with actuals and the mechanicals are met. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Oh - we have certs with actuals and the mechanicals are met. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Whatever is specified in the ASTM standard you cite in your purchase order--not just mechanicals--should be addressed in the supplier's cert.

Whatever is specified in the ASTM standard you cite in your purchase order--not just mechanicals--should be addressed in the supplier's cert.

Yes. It's all there in accordance with ASTM B211.
Chemical composition is not in question as the temper does not impact it.

Yes. It's all there in accordance with ASTM B211.
Chemical composition is not in question as the temper does not impact it.

If the material (and the material cert) meets the requirements, I don't understand the original question. Does the cert actually cite ASTM B211? If it doesn't, it should, and your problem is over, no?

If the material (and the material cert) meets the requirements, I don't understand the original question. Does the cert actually cite ASTM B211? If it doesn't, it should, and your problem is over, no?

Because we ordered T4 temper.
They sent T351 temper with a note on the cert saying it's equivalent to T4.

I'm looking to this fine community of very helpful people make sure I understood the QA Manager at the mill correctly. Seeking a second opinion so to speak.

and hope someone addresses my secondary question as well.

First let me state that if they as the certifiers "belive"it complies then they should certify to your PO requiremetns with out exception. Any deviations or noncompliances should have your approval before they ship.

That being said what they are stating is correct as I remember .

I think the T4 is naturaly aged and the T351 is stress relived by stretching. But it would not be the first time I am wrong. I will defer to one of the experts here on the cove.
:2cents:


FWIW - One of my QC inspectors with a background in metals bopped himself on the forehead when I mentioned the stretching vs natural aging and said "that's right! I forgot about that."

Here is the spec sheet that indicates they are mechanicaly the same.

To address your second question the easyest way to address this as a one time change is to just have the supplier submite to your firm the "subsubstitute" and send them approval which they then referance on their CofC. This dots the I's and crosses the T's as far as compliance to PO requirements. If you do not and this PO/cert was reviewed as part of an audit I would see this as an non compliance issue.
But you now have the material so write it up as a nonconformance and have the engineer who called out the T4 accept the use of the T351.
These are realy the only 2 valid options that I see.
:2cents: