1. Is Ford's W-HTX heat treat survey replaced by CQI-9. I know the CSR still lists it but says to take the more stringent of the two. I think CQI-9 is the more stringent standard. Am I correct?
2. I need a copy of the Ford W-HTX self-assessment form. I have the Ford W-HTX standard but not the audit assessment form that needs to be completed for it.

Read Ford Heat Treat Rollout Letter (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6226) from our post attachments list.

I'm in a similar boat. Our surveillance auditor sited us for not doing a self-assessment to W-HTX. I presented a copy of the rollout letter.
Our TS auditor, pointed to the date of the rollout letter which pre-dates Ford's latest CSR revision. His logic and interpretation by the Registrar is that if Ford wanted the rollout letter to continue in force, they would have change the CSR or re-sent another letter. I pointed out that the section in the CSR that mentions the heat treat self assessment didn't change from the previous CSR revision to the present copy, but that fell on deaf ears. So I am hoping someone did a comparison.

To me, it looks like Ford is expecting compliance to both W-HTX and CQI-9, no surprise to anyone - more hoops for the suppliers.

Their current CSR dated February 2008:

" Effective 7th January, 2008, all heat-treating processes at each supplier and organization manufacturing site shall be assessed annually (at all tier levels), using the CQI-9 "Special Process: Heat Treat System Assessment" (HTSA) Second Edition, available through AIAG, http://www.aiag.org/."

"The organization shall maintain the assessment reports and other evidence of compliance to W-HTX and CQI-9 at the organization's site and make them available to STA upon request."

[quote=RhoRho;247257]1. Is Ford's W-HTX heat treat survey replaced by CQI-9. I know the CSR still lists it but says to take the more stringent of the two. I think CQI-9 is the more stringent standard. Am I correct
2. I need a copy of the Ford W-HTX self-assessment form. I have the Ford W-HTX standard but not the audit assessment form that needs to be completed for it.[quote=RhoRho;247257]

W-HTX is really tough to find. If you still need it let me know and I'll try to find the link again on the Ford supplier site.

It would really help me to have a copy. Thanks.

you can find several on the internet. Make sure you download the latest version (I believe the latest is 1996 edition)

Ford W-HTX links (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=ford+%22w-htx%22+filetype%3Apdf)

W-HTX does not have a scoring part. The scoring part was included in the W-HTSS (heat treat system survey), which is obsolete and replaced by CQI-9.

We have done a comparison between CQI-9 and W-HTX to determine which standard is more stringent.

We found out that it depends on the heat treat process you are using as to which is more critical. Microstructure (microhardness) is one of the keys. Ford's HTX states each batch (batch furnace) or each day (continuous batch) while the CQI-9 states daily for both types (batch and continuous).
Bottom line is that during our surveillance audit, we were sited for not complying with the Ford's CSR, because we did not complete am audit to the HTX standard.
I should remind you that we had the letter from Velliky, but it predates the latest version of CQI-9.
We do not have a STA Engineer because we are tier II to Ford.

Does anyone know if Hot Isostatic Pressing is considered a Heat Treatment Process that would need to be audited to CQI-9?

Thanks

Brian

It appears that your registrar is not up to date with the Ford CSR. Ford has obsoleted W-HTSS, but not W-HTX. You are required by Ford to do CQI-9 and use W-HTX when its requirements are more stringent that CQI-9. For Ford you have to comply with both documents (W-HTX and CQI-9)

About HIP:

HIP applies heat and pressure to change the microstructure of alloys.
By using this definition, it falls under CQI-9, in my opinion.
Any arguments to the contrary are welcome.

(You can contact the Ford STA that handles your Tier 1. Also what does your Tier 1 say?)

If it is, you will have to develop your own "process table", because it is not covered in current CQI-9 2nd edition release.

Info about this process (http://www.ttigroup.org.uk/files/tti_hipping.pdf)

Thanks Kees,

My opinion was the same, but we had some discussions here about what the industry normally considers "heat treatment".

As we are getting Aluminium components HIPped, I was going to use table 3 (Aluminium heat treating) but mark as non applicable those elements which are not used in the HIP process - such as quenching.

Thanks again for your help.

Brian

Ford has a new revision of their CSR posted through Covisnt dated August 2008.
It is not yet posted on the IATF Global Oversight website.

Ford has a new Heat Treat Assessment which is a suppliment to CQI-9.
According to the information on their CSR, this new assessment covers the differences between W-HTX and CQI-9.

Ford has a new revision of their CSR posted through Covisnt dated August 2008.
It is not yet posted on the IATF Global Oversight website.

Ford has a new Heat Treat Assessment which is a supplement to CQI-9.
According to the information on their CSR, this new assessment covers the differences between W-HTX and CQI-9.

The changes in CSR's and associated support documents are now released with such a speed! No wonder that folks in charge of document control are driven to insanity. ;)

Stijloor.

Kales Veggie (Kees) posted the Ford letter and checklist here:
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=29542

Hi everyone, I'm a little confused on whether the CQI-9 and Ford W-HTX assessments apply to my company. We have an annealing oven to anneal copper elements in order to allow forming them (bend and squeeze) in subsequent internal processes to make engine block heaters.

Page 9 of the CQI-9 2nd edition has a box at the top of the page that says "Note: Material producers of primary or raw materials, or any intermediate thermal treating process step(s) that do not affect the final characteristics of the part are EXEMPT from conforming to the requirements of CQI-9."

Would the annealing I described be considered an intermediate thermal treating process step and therefore be exempt from the CQI-9 assessment? What about the Ford W-HTX assessment? I'm not sure and we have a TS surveillance audit this month that will follow up on this. Not sure where else I can get a clear answer on this.

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated!