Should the lead auditor (when covering the scope and criteria) in an opening meeting, disclose the audit objectives? (purpose for audit)

Internal, I would say for sure.

What about auditing a supplier?

Should the lead auditor (when covering the scope and criteria) in an opening meeting, disclose the audit objectives? (purpose for audit)

When I perform audits from the internal side, I have always discussed the Objectives as standard practice. From an External Side (I have not been a third party auditor), it would make sense to me that this also be discussed from the External side.


Note: I changed the Thread Title to better clarify your question.

Should the lead auditor (when covering the scope and criteria) in an opening meeting, disclose the audit objectives? (purpose for audit)

Internal, I would say for sure.

What about auditing a supplier?

Why would you not want to discuss the objective(s) with a supplier?

Should the lead auditor (when covering the scope and criteria) in an opening meeting, disclose the audit objectives? (purpose for audit)

Internal, I would say for sure.

What about auditing a supplier?

Absolutely! No question, definitely, sure, yes, indeed and go right ahead and mention those objectives......:lmao:

Why would I not? I don't know... Is there a reason to be concerned about sharing them with the auditee?


I was just wondering what the standard auditing practice is surrounding stating objectives in the opening meeting. Is it your choice or is it considered improper not to list them? Is it thier business or only between the auditor and audit requestor?

I'm guessing you attended an auditor training course. What did they say about the matter?

In all practicality, the more there is 'on the table' at the start of the audit, the better. Anything less is going to lead to a problem........

All cards on the table, face up.

Why would I not? I don't know... Is there a reason to be concerned about sharing them with the auditee?


I was just wondering what the standard auditing practice is surrounding stating objectives in the opening meeting. Is it your choice or is it considered improper not to list them? Is it thier business or only between the auditor and audit requestor?

ISO 19011 states that, along with other items, confirmation of the audit objectives, scope and cirteria should be covered during the opening meeting.

Ok.
ASQ auditing handbook has covering scope and purpose during opening meeting. Purpose being synonymous with objectives, so I'll go for it.

We can close this thread.

Ok.
ASQ auditing handbook has covering scope and purpose during opening meeting. Purpose being synonymous with objectives, so I'll go for it.

We can close this thread.

Woa, hang on there..........

Scope = what are you going to audit; system? process? contract?

Purpose = why are you doing the audit; compliance? pre-contract? corrective action implementation?

Objectives = what's the outcome of the audit; selection as an approved supplier, pre-assessment before a CB auditor arrives etc

And we missed 'criteria' = what are we auditing against; ISO 9001? regulatory requirements?

These can all be covered at the opening meeting, to make sure there's no doubt in anyone's mind about the audit.

We can close this thread.

Threads associated with audits will not be closed here at the Cove Forums. :nope: It is a topic near and dear to many of my Fellow Covers hearts! :yes: This topic typically evokes very passionate responses. If you'll hang around long enough here...you'll see.

Stijloor.

Ok.
ASQ auditing handbook has covering scope and purpose during opening meeting. Purpose being synonymous with objectives, so I'll go for it.

We can close this thread.

If that is what you want us to do, we will be happy to accommodate your request.

I would suggest that this thread remain open, because there are a lot of people that may have this same question, and responses that might help someone else.

If you want it closed, ask again

You will find that in ISO 19011 Clause 6.5.1 in the box entitled “Practical Help – Opening the meeting” one of the considerations, as appropriate, is the “confirmation of the audit objectives, scope and criteria” (d).

Within Clause 6.2.2 the audit objectives are used to define what it to be accomplished by the audit… This is the why we are here statement that should be communicated to the auditee.

It is my personnel feeling that disclosing to the auditee the objectives, scope and the criteria are part and parcel with Principles of Auditing found in Clause 4.

Should the audit objectives be discussed in the opening meeting?
Definitely, yes!

For suppliers… as others shared, “yes”… on the first place, setting an audit objective is part of audit process… sharing them to the auditee, would be essential part of the audit objective…

During the Opening Meeting with our clients, we use the atttached. Note that the sign-in follows the discussion.

Should the lead auditor (when covering the scope and criteria) in an opening meeting, disclose the audit objectives? (purpose for audit)

Internal, I would say for sure.

What about auditing a supplier?


:sarcasm:
Absolutely not. What purpose would it serve to let everyone know why the audit is being conducted and just confuse them?

Keep 'em guessing because the most productive audits are those that are laced with surprises.