Our company produces standard AN, AS, NAS, and MS parts.
AS9102 states in para. 4 that the Standard applies to organizations responsible for producing the design charactistics of the product.
It also states that it does not apply to Standard Catalog Hardware...

Do standard AN, AS, NAS, and MS parts fall into this catagory?
We do FAIs but do not complete the forms per AS9102.
J Allen

This is the answer that I've just received from As9102 writing team SAE.

Any item purchased from a catalog is considered standard catalog hardware. There is no separate/special catalog published by an industrial or national authority.

Many companies have catalogs of standard parts that they have designed for their own use. Boeing, for example, has BAC standards. This type of "catalog" part doesn't qualify as a standard. To qualify, the part must be available through a catalog to anyone.

This is a quotes from a similar thread titled, "AS9102 - Do I have to do FAI for all Standard Catalog Hardware items (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10841)"

J Allen, Does your customer state any FAI requirements on the contract and/or in their quality requirements? If they do it becomes a customer specified requirement.

From my experience, the OEM customers I have dealt with list the requirements via their P.O. and SQR's, which have required the FAI to be performed in accordance with AS9102A, regardless if its "standard catalog hardware".

J Allen

Completing FAI per AS9102 is driven by PO requirements of your customer. If you have completed an internal FAI and your customer now requests an AS9102 FAIR you need to transfer the information to the AS forms 1, 2 and 3.

One very important item to know is that a AS9102 FAI requires verification to all requirements stated on the drawing, in the PO or required by specification.

I do have a customer that requires FAI reports to be sent for approval prior to production runs. He does not specify to do the FAI per AS9102 but accepts the document that I provide.

I have a new customer that calls out Bubble maps, and associated doecuments, and requires that AS9102 Forms 1,2,&3 be used.

My boss says he will take exception with the contract because he believes the statement of standard catalog hardware not being applicable to our AS parts..

I don't agree with him. I'm pretty sure that AN, AS, NAS, and MS parts fall outside the definition of standard catalog parts.

Am I right?

I don't agree with him. I'm pretty sure that AN, AS, NAS, and MS parts fall outside the definition of standard catalog parts.

Am I right?

That, in my opinion, is correct. The AN, MS, NAS, AS (et all) are standard parts submitted for more extensive testing to be able to meet those specifications and received that designation.

My boss says he will take exception with the contract because he believes the statement of standard catalog hardware not being applicable to our AS parts.

Was this exception taken prior to accepting the contract as required by AS9100B, para. 7.2.2? If not, you are violating the contract by not adhereing to the already agreed upon requirements.

I don't agree with him. I'm pretty sure that AN, AS, NAS, and MS parts fall outside the definition of standard catalog parts.

STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item. (i.e. AN6225, AN6226, MS35803, etc.)

Do your AN, AS, NAS and MS parts fall under this definition?

Based on that definition, it appears that my parts fit.
Where did the definition come from?
J Allen

Based on that definition, it appears that my parts fit.
Where did the definition come from?

AS9102 Rev. A

Frank T,
Thanks, it was right there in the spec.
If it was a snake, it would have bit me!
Thank you all for your comments and getting me steered in the right direction.
J Allen.

Your welcome. If you have any further question, don't hesitate to post them, thats what the cove is all about.

I would first check to see that what you conceder as standard catalog part is not a customer specific part based on their intended application. Aerospace companies are good about taking a standard catalog part and then loading their drawings with additional requirements such as material testing, packaging requirement etc.

One point a lot of companies seem to forget about the FAI process is that it is not free to the customer. Your company is entitled to charge for this service and the fee should be based on how long it will take to complete the package at you going rate.

Jeff,
The majority of my customers are distributors who sell to primes and other sub-contractors.
Most of these distributors don't even ask for an FAI report. As part of my Quality System, I always have a FAI performed prior to running the production lot.
The question came about on a quote request that would impose AS9102 as part of the contract. It would not change the Std part in any way. If it did, I could not certify it to the Std.
It is this requirement that posed the question as to whether it was required to perform FAI as part of the AS9102 or driven by the contract.
It turns out that As9102 was not flowed down by the prime.
Because we took exception, all i need to perform is my regular dimensional FAI, and process/material certs.
Thanks,
J Allen

J Allen

You are correct that your direct customer must flow down this requirement to you via the procurement process to be applicable to you business.

One word of caution about what you are describing as your method of performing a FAI before the production run. It does not meet the requirements of a FAI per AS9102. A FAI is defined as:

FIRST ARTICLE INSPECTION (FAI): A complete, independent, and documented physical and functional inspection process to verify that prescribed production methods have produced an acceptable item as specified by engineering drawings, planning, purchase order, engineering specifications, and/or other applicable design documents.

A first piece set-up inspection only indicates that your production methods have the potential of producing and acceptable item. You must sample a part from the production run to verify that you have produced an acceptable item when performing the AS9102 FAI.

Thanks Jeff,
You are absolutely correct!
Thanks for pointing out the difference.
I should have stated that dimensional FAI is performed prior to completion of the production run. We also perform final inspection by sampling on all lots.
Another point, our machinists perform in-process inspection (sampling) every hour on the parts during production runs.
We also have what I call a Dr. Pepper inspection (10, 2, & 4), that's 3 times a shift that sampling inspection is performed by QC during the production run. These inspections are documented.
It apparently works as I have had no customer returns/rejections during the last two years.
J Allen