We are a small tool and die shop 5 full time emplyoees and 3 part time. I am in the process of setting up our management system, and am the only one here with any current knowledge of ISO systems, I have been around them for many years.

My question is I could train someone else here to do the auditing, because I cannot audit my self, but by doing that they will have very little knowledge of the requirements and auditing experenience. How much can I assist them and not cross across the line?

I think audits should be fair, but value added at the same time.

Your right!, you shouldn't audit yourself. In a shop as small as yours i would think you would have at least one other person to do the audits along with you. This way you can perform cross functional audits and not be in danger of auditing yourself.

We are a small tool and die shop 5 full time emplyoees and 3 part time. I am in the process of setting up our management system, and am the only one here with any current knowledge of ISO systems, I have been around them for many years.

My question is I could train someone else here to do the auditing, because I cannot audit my self, but by doing that they will have very little knowledge of the requirements and auditing experenience. How much can I assist them and not cross across the line?

I think audits should be fair, but value added at the same time.

You can, and probably should, audit everything you don't actually do. You can train someone else to audit the parts of the system that you do. Another good way to cover audits is to look for another small company in your area and "trade" auditing services. You audit them and let them audit you.

Keep it simple, don't over complicate it.

Dave

Dave, what a great idea. I never thought of doing something like that. I am currently faced with the very same issue and had someone in plant that had audit experience from the Air Force, but just discovered he has resigned, so I am back at square one.

I have seen this type of "trade-off" between small organizations where it works very well.
Top Management in each must be in full agreement (and involved) to be certain objectives for the audits are agreed. That will help to make them effective.

Did you have to enter into a NDA with the other company?

You should take care with selecting someone from another company. Many folks only get to audit once or twice a year and you should be extremely cautious about taking them in, based on - for example - simply passing a course! They may also struggle for a while to get past auditing to 'ISO' and understand your system better.

For the once or twice a year that you need someone, I'd select a local consultant - taking care with some references - and then make some opprtunities for improving your system too. Most of the folks I know would happily do the audits and offer some free consulting on the side!

How would you suggest I attempt to link up with some of these folks?

How would you suggest I attempt to link up with some of these folks?

Who are you referring to?

I'm talking about local "Qualified" QMS auditors that need the credit for their own RAB certification?

Try your local ASQ section for starters....then the list of 'whoregistered.com' in the area and then call their companies. The local MEP might know some people too.

I'm talking about local "Qualified" QMS auditors that need the credit for their own RAB certification?

Bob,

Not to want to split hairs here, but you are referring to RABQSA (http://www.rabqsa.com/)?

Stijloor.

That's correct!

I'm talking about local "Qualified" QMS auditors that need the credit for their own RAB certification?

In the main, these are going to be consultants (who might need an audit or two) or CB auditors (who don't need another audit). Not very many internal auditors have gone the RABQSA route..........try those places I mentioned, you're more likely to get a response there.

In the main, these are going to be consultants (who might need an audit or two) or CB auditors (who don't need another audit). Not very many internal auditors have gone the RABQSA route..........try those places I mentioned, you're more likely to get a response there.

I agree with Andy. Try the local ASQ chapter.

If you don't know where to begin, start here (http://www.asq.org/sections/find.html).

Stijloor.

...another good way to cover audits is to look for another small company in your area and "trade" auditing services. You audit them and let them audit you...


...this is really a good strategy… one thing you need only to consider is that you have to have the competence records of the auditor (from the other company)… this might be checked & verified by your external auditor during surveillance audit…

...and as Dave mentioned, "Keep it simple, don't over complicate it..."