I'm looking for a term or description that might engender a more positive attitude than "non-conformance" on an audit form.

While some might not agree, to me it sounds kind of negative. And I found a form here with "partial conformance"?

I'm sure I have seen some discussions where it was suggested replacing "non-conformance" with "opportunity for improvement" but cant find that thread using the search.

Any other labels or opinions anyone can throw at me please?

:modcop: Marty, I revised the title for more description. If you would like it changed or if there is a problem, contact me or any moderator.

This particular subject has been discussed many times here. To say, I think it is interesting and bears merit if non-traditional terms are used.

In short, I would state that you can use any term you desire.

1. Everyone in the organization should understand what you are talking about.
2. I would have the term identified somewhere, so that auditors and customers know what it means.

As far as the term non-conformance, just my opinion... it's not supposed to be positive!:D When there is a non-conformance, it means something does not conform to the stated system. It does not mean an auditor is picking on you, does not mean "heads need to roll", or that it's not that big of a deal and everyone can go on with Life As Usual.

I've always been of the opinion that the process after the citation is what governs the image of the phrase. If it always a corporate beating, name calling, major ordeal, band-aid fixes; no wonder the word is negative. If it is nurtured to be just what it is, an opportunity to improve the system, then I don't think it should be that negative.

"Finding" is a less negative word that still implies a specificity. OFI is typically more general.

Thanks for altering the title Brad.

It was the SHE Manager that raised the "negative" conotation of "non-conformance" with me at a meeting last week and I tended to agree that depending on the company culture it may be seen that way.

I like your suggestion of identifying the terms that we do end up using. I hadnt thought of that so thank you. I will add to the notes on the first page right away.

Nevertheless I also agree that it has to say that you werent doing something in the way you planned or were required to in your objectives. But in a way that is empathic and implies feedback rather than criticism. I guess getting the balance right for where the company culture is at now is important.

Duke I will run the word "finding" past the SHE manager and see what he thinks. Also will do another search under the new thread title you have given me.

But thankyou both for the suggestions.

:thanx:

Your SHE manager is probably demonstrating a lack of competence in EMS. "Non-conformity" is a specified term that is specifically defined by ISO 14001:2004. Truthfully you can call "non-conformance" anything you choose but all you'll start is a confusing collection of words that will create a potential for mis-use and misunderstanding when it comes to your EMS (Remember, your EMS is not your regulatory compliance system and your manager may be getting confused)

I also teach against using the word "finding" and substituting it for "non-conformance" The word "finding" is specifically defined by the ISO as the "result of the evaluation of audit evidence against audit criteria", and can indicate conformance as well as non-conformance.

When you start using words for other than their defined intent you create potential for misunderstanding, to include your 3rd party auditor, ill-defined usage, and mistakes.

Nonconformance is not negative, it's an indicator of where corrective action must take place and a starting point for improvement (which by the way you must be able to demonstrate). Nonconformance is just "the non-fulfillment of a requirement", and nothing more.

If your SHE Manager doesn't like it, have the person contact me and I'd be happy to provide a free lesson:lol:

Exactly, Randy. Thank you for your input.

Marty, I know you know this... but keep in mind- non-conformance occurs when you said you would do something, but didn't. The same way you might call out a spouse/significant other when they were clear they would take care of something, but didn't. "I thought you told me you would clean up the kitchen?" Oh yeah, I forgot.

#1 The QMS system is yours. It should be designed for your organization, to please your customer, to allow you to increase your profit and market share.

#2 Auditors, for the most part, are good folks. They aren't getting rich. They are doing what they do because somewhere in their psyche, they feel they are making a difference. They are there for your process.

Saying all that, when management agrees that a certain action is important and should be done (per the QMS), then you would think the organization would be jumping at making sure it was accomplished. So when evidence shows the organization is not doing that, the non-conformance is not an accusation that someone is a terrible person, or that they have a horrible system. It simply means you are not doing something you said you would do.

I just lament that if more managers understood that, maybe people would be a little more comfortable with auditors.

I'm looking for a term or description that might engender a more positive attitude than "non-conformance" on an audit form. ............................

Marty, are you referring to the naming of the form only? If it is the form, you may name it whatever you want but note it in your relevant procedures. I know of people that are not comfortable with an NC or CAR - so they use other names such as 'Action Request Form'.

This was discussed earlier in Alternate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=19901)

I pretty much agree with Randy, but sometimes when I'm working with someone that is sensitive to the term "nonconformance" I may use the term "negative finding". I much prefer "nonconformance". I try to have some "positive findings" during an audit as well.

I have been using all the standard terms mentioned in the standard. However, However, for information purpose, i want to know if there is any possiblity we could replace word or using more milder words? :thanks:

You can call a NC "apple" or "oopsy" or "drat" or "zinko" or "puppy", but eventually no matter how nice, soft and friendly you try to make it sound it's still just a rose by another name and the exact same feeling, understanding and distaste you now have will be the result.

What's the difference between a "police action", "conflict", or "war".....? NADA and that's all you get in the end when you use different, more gentler words....NADA

It's not so much the word as it is the organization's culture towards it. My site always stressed that a nonconformance was both a gap between requirements and reality, but also the opportunity to help us in our mission to be the benchmark within our entire organization.

While 0 nonconformances was always the goal, we were sadistic enough to challeng auditors (both intenal and external) to find them...as they as they were value-added. Typos and the like were deemed fluff and if any of our internal audit team came back to a caucus meeting with that, I challenged them to come back with something more meaningful (including positive remarks).

The most difficult obstacle that I found was helping people to see beyond the question of "How did this nonconformance happen"...at least beyond the superficial finger-pointing. Such actions do not help the organization or its processes.

As our system matured, it became more and more accepted that nonconformances were a postive thing. Their identification leads to resolution which in turn can lead to improvement within your system.

Roxane-

You should be proud that your system has matured to that point. Hopefully someday ours will.

Kind regards -John

A pile of dung will smell bad no matter what you choose to call it. Referring to it as a bouquet of roses won't alter the stench. The idea of renaming "nonconformity" so as to give it a positive spin is misguided. The positive spin happens in the correction and corrective action prompted by the smelly pile of dung nonconformity. Take something that's bad and make something good out of it (dried buffalo chips --> fuel for fire).

Marty50, I have used "Audit Deficiency" or "System Deficiency".

Bob

While I agree that it doesn't matter what we call a nonconformity, I recognize that in some company cultures certain words have been abused enough that using a different word might be better.

At a large military organization I helped through the certification process, there was a real stigma attached to the word "quality." To them, "quality" was the people who came to "inspect" them and catch them doing things wrong. Often when "quality" showed up they would lock their toolboxes and head for the door. Obviously it wasn't in the best interest to use that word very often there. Instead of implementing a "Quality Management System," they implemented an "Aerospace Management System."

If that's what's going on here, I'm sure there are pleny of pseudonyms that would work. Conformity Gap, Shortcoming, and Lapse are a few I've heard that haven't been mentioned yet.

A big thanks to Ajit,


That's exactly the sort of thread I was looking for. Some diverse and excellent view points in the there. Also seemed to very much engage people here by the length of it.

Ajit I will take the time to read through that thread and see what value it has for me here. Thankyou again and thankyou to all those contributing again this time around.

:thanx:

A big thanks to Ajit,


That's exactly the sort of thread I was looking for. Some diverse and excellent view points in the there. Also seemed to very much engage people here by the length of it.

Ajit I will take the time to read through that thread and see what value it has for me here. Thankyou again and thankyou to all those contributing again this time around.

:thanx:

Hi Marty,
Many of my customers utilize an "Action Item Database", wherein they record, manage and track all types of actions...corrective, preventive and continual improvements, regardless of how they came to be (i.e. as a result of internal/external audits, customer complaints, in-process inspections, housekeeping audits, etc). The name of the Form that they use for recording all types of "actions" is an "Action Item Record".

:argue:As far as this "thread" goes, I guess you could say I feel strongly both ways...:argue:

I agree with the "Rose by any other name..." and "don't stray too far from common usage" concepts, but at the same time have to acknowledge employee aversion to "negative-sounding" monikers...hence the more "pro-active" variation of..."Action Item".

Good Luck,
Patricia

A big thanks to Ajit,

That's exactly the sort of thread I was looking for. Some diverse and excellent view points in the there. Also seemed to very much engage people here by the length of it.

Ajit I will take the time to read through that thread and see what value it has for me here. Thankyou again and thankyou to all those contributing again this time around.

:thanx:

Glad to know that we could be of help to you

Hope to see your continued participation in the future :)

I just read through this thread and I'd like to put in a plea for including a referent each time we introduce an abbreviation or acronym into the discussion.
I happen to know what ALL these stand for in this context, but I have over 40 years experience. How about a little consideration for the newbies who may be too embarrassed or shy to ask? (Especially since some of the abbreviations are used in other contexts.)
EMS
OFI
SHE
QMS
NC
Appear with no explanation they mean
EMS = Environmental Management Systems (EU)
OFI = Opportunity For Improvement
SHE = Safety, Health, Environment
QMS = Quality Management System (ANSI term)
NC = nonconformance (I prefer it to mean "no charge" at the bottom of my dinner check or bar tab. ;);))

For folks struggling (I still struggle with the alphabet soup at the FAA, where many of the folks using the abbreviations and acronyms had no clue what the spelled-out words were), there is some relief at http://www.acronymfinder.com.

For folks struggling (I still struggle with the alphabet soup at the FAA, where many of the folks using the abbreviations and acronyms had no clue what the spelled-out words were), there is some relief at http://www.acronymfinder.com.

Are you talking about the Federal Aviation Administration, or the Florida Apartment Association? :notme:

Are you talking about the Federal Aviation Administration, or the Florida Apartment Association? :notme:BOTH!:lmao::lmao: