Today i wnet through internal audit. The auditor raised a non conformance that I have not taken feedback from internal customers? He refered to the clause 7.2.3 of ISO 9001: version 2000.
My reaction was that i have not heard that before since teh standard calls for feedback from external customers? But he insists.
Can anyone comment on that? :thanks:

Perhaps they're looking at the definition of customer in ISO 9000:3.3.5
customer
organization (3.3.1) or person that receives a product (3.4.2)
EXAMPLE Consumer, client, end-user, retailer, beneficiary and purchaser.
NOTE A customer can be internal or external to the organization.
The note shows that customers can be internal. While I think it's a good idea to collect internal customer feedback, I don't think I've ever seen it written as a nonconformity if an organization didn't.

Today i wnet through internal audit. The auditor raised a non conformance that I have not taken feedback from internal customers? He refered to the clause 7.2.3 of ISO 9001: version 2000.
My reaction was that i have not heard that before since teh standard calls for feedback from external customers? But he insists.
Can anyone comment on that? :thanks:

Hi Amanbhai,

Your title says the auditor needs MR service feedback but the body of your post referred to internal customers. Kindly let us know which is which so that we can make the necessary amendment.

Is it a requirement of the ISO 9001, standard to collect internal customer feedback for MR?
From the defintion, i don't think its a requirement for MR services. any comments or help is appriciated. :thanks:

Is it a requirement of the ISO 9001, standard to collect internal customer feedback for MR?
From the defintion, i don't think its a requirement for MR services. any comments or help is appriciated. :thanks:

I don't believe it's a specific requirement that you must collect internal customer feedback. By the way, what does "MR services" mean?

Is it a requirement of the ISO 9001, standard to collect internal customer feedback for MR?
From the defintion, i don't think its a requirement for MR services. any comments or help is appriciated. :thanks:

I agree with Howste. The requirement is not there.

I would identify it as an observation, because it could benefit the organization.

The feedback from the other processes on the receiving end could turn out Preventative Actions (to eliminate Potential nonconformities).

Perhaps they're looking at the definition of customer in ISO 9000:
The note shows that customers can be internal. While I think it's a good idea to collect internal customer feedback, I don't think I've ever seen it written as a nonconformity if an organization didn't.

I agree with Howste and Coury, especially Coury's opinion that it shouldn't have been an NC but should have been an observation. However, as the dumbest guy in the room, I will watch this thread to see what those who are more experienced than I have to say.

Sidney, could you offer your opinion on this one?

Oh yeah, it makes sense because business begins and ends with the "customer" (Remember the process model?) and the lifeblood of the organization (money) comes from the internal customer and meeting their expectations is just as important as the external one. :sarcasm:

I'd really think that internal issue resolution would be better managed through a process of management reviews, organizational management meetings and some heart-to-heart's.

Once again, we have a great example of where external and internal audits diverge.

What was the internal auditor's scope and criteria for their audit? Were they sent to diagnose a problem which could be addressed by having such a measurement in place?

If the auditor is 'fishing' for something to write, I'd like to know how they got to diagnosing that this is something worth working on. For a start, in many organizational cultures, internal satisfaction isn't within their universe, let alone on their radar! What was the auditor thinking. Quite frankly it makes nice busy work, but what's the benefit? Did they quantify, with data, why the organization should have a method to measure internal satisfaction?

Therefore, grading an audit finding as observation is also a complete waste of time! If management don't see any reason to recgonize and perform this kind of measurement, does anyone seriously think (including the auditor who reported it) that anything's going to be done about it?

From that situation, I could see this 'hanging out there' with no real action taken and a hapless CB auditor finding it - and who knows what might happen as a result......

All internal auditors should take note - reporting an 'observation' because you 'feel' something should be done, won't cut it with management! You have to get your story straight - with data (and it better be in $$$$)

I agree with Howste. The requirement is not there.

I would identify it as an observation, because it could benefit the organization.

The feedback from the other processes on the receiving end could turn out Preventative Actions (to eliminate Potential nonconformities).

MR = Management representative

can we use Internal audit of management represntative as a pre emptive action or an action that could prevent any potential non conformity ?

Today i wnet through internal audit. The auditor raised a non conformance that I have not taken feedback from internal customers? He refered to the clause 7.2.3 of ISO 9001: version 2000.
My reaction was that i have not heard that before since teh standard calls for feedback from external customers? But he insists.
Can anyone comment on that? :thanks:

I have to disagree that 'the standard calls for feedback from external customers' (italics mine). This is not correct.

It does refer to 'customer feedback' - and the definition of customer can be (as has been highlighted previously), either internal or external.

If he was referring to 7.2.3, is he saying that you don't have effective arrangements for communicating with your internal customers, 'including customer complaints'?

Can you indicate who are the internal customers he didn't find were effectively communicated with? What is or was the evidence cited for that?

At first sound, it doesn't feel right... but I'd like to know a bit more about who your internal customers are, and what the situation is.

MR = Management representative

can we use Internal audit of management represntative as a pre emptive action or an action that could prevent any potential non conformity ?

In what respect do you mean by auditing the Management Representative?

What I meant, is that the Internal Customers (manufacturing processes and so forth) feedback could provide valuable information, that could Prevent Potential nonconformities (Preventative) during the manufacturing cycles. The internal customer could also identify improvements.

That is why feedback from the Internal Customer can improve the Business.

I audited a company whose quality policy, after a long and involved statement, ended with "....... satisfaction of our customers, both internal and external".

It would be very difficult to evaluate the success/failure of that policy if there was no evidence that satisfaction was measured and analyzed somehow.

Once again, I think we need more information before we make a comment about the validity of the auditor's statement. We can all quote the standard but only the poster knows what their own procedures, policies, goals and objectives are. I find it is usually not the standard that is not being met. More often it is the company who has shot themselves in the foot with their own requirements.

Dave