As a research and development company for the automotive field, I was wondering if all the 5 core tools in the automotive area necessary for the internal auditor’s? It was suggested by a third party auditor to have it done.


:confused:
Confused auditor

As a research and development company for the automotive field, I was wondering if all the 5 core tools in the automotive area necessary for the internal auditor’s? It was suggested by a third party auditor to have it done.


:confused:
Confused auditor

I added to your title to better define your question. If you would like it changed back to the original or would like a different title, please let any of the Moderators know your wishes.

As a research and development company for the automotive field, I was wondering if all the 5 core tools in the automotive area necessary for the internal auditor’s? It was suggested by a third party auditor to have it done.


:confused:
Confused auditor

Training in the five AIAG Core Tools is required by certain customers.
Look at their Customer Specific Requirements (CSR's) to find out.

Ford Motor Company is one of them.

A good start is to look here: www.iaob.org

Stijloor.

As a research and development company for the automotive field, I was wondering if all the 5 core tools in the automotive area necessary for the internal auditor’s? It was suggested by a third party auditor to have it done.


:confused:
Confused auditor

Welcome to the Cove.

There is no specific requirement that all auditors need training in the core tools. Like any audit there is nothing wrong with bringing in an expert as part of your audit team.

Having said that, the auditor is offering you decent advice. If you are auditing to 16949, it makes perfect sense to understand the requirements. Your auditing task will be a lot easier with training.

Some automotive customers require internal auditor training be done by a trained lead auditor. To meet that requirement I don't see how you could omit training in the core tools.

Dave

Training in the five AIAG Core Tools is required by certain customers.
Look at their Customer Specific Requirements (CSR's) to find out.

Ford Motor Company is one of them.

A good start is to look here: www.iaob.org

Stijloor.

You may also want to look at the IAOB at www.iatfglobaloversight.org

I would also add that for the same reason Ford requires core tools training, you could also throw in calibration (R&R) and problem solving.

You may also want to look at the IAOB at www.iatfglobaloversight.org

I would also add that for the same reason Ford requires core tools training, you could also throw in calibration (R&R) and problem solving.

Thank you Dave for providing the correct link! :applause:

I forgot that IAOB and IATF have changed site names. :bonk: :bonk:

Cove Teamwork in action. :agree1:

Stijloor.

Thank you Dave for providing the correct link!
Stijloor.
You know I originally typed the old IAOB address. Then, just to make sure I didn't transpose letters, I copied it into a new browser. The old site came up with the link to the new site, and I changed it. :notme:

I added to your title to better define your question. If you would like it changed back to the original or would like a different title, please let any of the Moderators know your wishes.

The title should read "5 Core Tools Training for Internal Auditors" - since we don't know if we're talking about only 5 auditors here...............:lmao:

It's generally accepted that anyone who gets trained as an internal auditor, gets the core tools training. Crazy, really, since many auditors wouldn't have a hope in heaven of understanding all the processes which involve the implementation of these tools.

In the past, I've had many people in class to become auditors who shouldn't ever be let loose on a process which involved MSA or one of the others. Training should only be given to those people who have the competence to audit the processes involving the tools. Unfortunately, that small point missed some customers' folks............

The title should read "5 Core Tools Training for Internal Auditors" - since we don't know if we're talking about only 5 auditors here...............:lmao:


It is done as requested Andy.:agree:

Now does the OP like the Title now?

External auditors will ask for it due they say that we must follow with IS/TS automotive requierements although they sometimes applied his/her criteria based on which your customers are,,, for instance you are shipping directly (ist tier) to any of the automotive guys AUDITORS fpr sure they will required them,,, if not probably they are going to be softer with the criteria - anyway is a good idea - probe that implementing this 5 core tolls among the plants are useful ... APQP, PPAP, SPC, FMEA, CONTROL PLAN MSA, are tools which everybody are using..,:cool:

We have always included the 5 Core Tools Training for our internal auditors, as they are expected to perform-System/Process/Product Audits.

We have observed that our quality of internal assessment has improved a lot.

In our end, we require our internal auditors to have knowledge of the core tools. Otherwise, it would be a problem on the auditor’s part, how to audit the company’s SPC or MSA System. :)
Raffy :cool:

As a research and development company for the automotive field, I was wondering if all the 5 core tools in the automotive area necessary for the internal auditor’s? It was suggested by a third party auditor to have it done.


:confused:
Confused auditor
Ford CSR
Internal Auditor Qualifications
Internal quality management system auditors shall be qualified per 4.39.1 or 4.39.2
below.
4.39.1 Be trained and evaluated in the following areas:
• The Technical Specification ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Related core tools (e.g. APQP, SPC, MSA, FMEA, PPAP)
• Applicable customer-specific requirements, and
• The automotive process approach to auditing.
And, as part of the training, participates in practice sessions
equivalent to one audit day in:
• Case study audits, and/or
• Auditing role plays/simulations, and/or
• On-site audits.
Core tools and customer specifics can be taught by company or
industry recognized experts/specialists.
4.39.2 Or, have conducted at least 5 internal ISO/TS 16949:2002 internal audits
during the prior 24 months under the supervision of an auditor trained as
specified in 4.39.1 . The audits will need to have covered all
requirements of the technical specification and all processes directly
impacting Ford part quality at least once over the 5 or more audits.

Ford CSR
Internal Auditor Qualifications
Internal quality management system auditors shall be qualified per 4.39.1 or 4.39.2
below.
4.39.1 Be trained and evaluated in the following areas:
• The Technical Specification ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Related core tools (e.g. APQP, SPC, MSA, FMEA, PPAP)
• Applicable customer-specific requirements, and
• The automotive process approach to auditing.
And, as part of the training, participates in practice sessions
equivalent to one audit day in:
• Case study audits, and/or
• Auditing role plays/simulations, and/or
• On-site audits.
Core tools and customer specifics can be taught by company or
industry recognized experts/specialists.
4.39.2 Or, have conducted at least 5 internal ISO/TS 16949:2002 internal audits
during the prior 24 months under the supervision of an auditor trained as
specified in 4.39.1 . The audits will need to have covered all
requirements of the technical specification and all processes directly
impacting Ford part quality at least once over the 5 or more audits.


This comment absolutely correct.
How and auditor can audit MSA, SPC, APQP, PPAP & PFMEA if they have no competency on it ....??????


jhonie

Quality Assurance Staff of IGP Group