Does anyone know the status of the ISO Safety and Health standard? The name is ... let me see... uh, SH18000? or SA18000?

Some companies (eg Belden Cables UK)are now certified to this standard OHSAS 18001 (not exclusively an ISO standard). You can buy it through ANSI so I guess it's official. More info at: http://www.nsaicert.com/ohas.htm

Roger

It's starting to come into use by many organizations. CEEM, DNV and BSI offer training on it. I think DNV and BSI are doing registration too.

I've used it some (I'm an EHS guy by trade) and like it. If you take out the word "safety" and insert "environmental" you basically have ISO 14000. Both documents are structured the same.

You need both OHSAS 18000 and 18001.

Marc - ya think it's too early to start a forum for ISO 18001? I see AIAG is starting a committee on this standard which could mean that Big 3 may move to make this mandatory (from a 3rd party standpoint) for their suppliers too. (It's great to be involved in the wonderful world of ever-spiraling standards!)

The AIHA is formally involved in developing a Safety Standard right now that looks like it is based on BS8800 & OHSAS 18001.

Are you sure it's going to be an ISO standard?

ISO doesn't appear to have a technical committee looking at this subject.

From what I can recall the last time ISO looked at the subject, too many countries could foresee human rights problems associated with such a standard and discussion didn't get too far. Seems you couldn't certify sweat shops and rug makers with children chained to looms. But you can get them quality certified/registered!

------------------

Funny you should mention...

I was actually going to put in a post about that myself. I couldn't remember the number of the new H&S standard. The only thing I was wondering about is each country likely has different labour laws, etc. How will this work? For quality, I mean there aren't really any 'laws' per se governing this. But health & safety for sure there are laws. My company is just starting to develop a H&S System (yes we are a little behind the times). But I'm thinking that perhaps if there was a third party (other than the Ministry of Labour) to answer to they might take it more seriously.

More info on this new standard would be appreciated.

I brought this subject up because some time ago, one of the Big 3 reps (Dan Reid?) talked about the effect of the cost of health & safety on the price of cars. In addition, in that same article, he talked about compliance to sort of health/safety standard in the future. When I saw the announcement by AIAG about a committee on health & safety, I thought the Big 3 was about to come down with an edict to comply with ISO 18001 or BS 8800 or whatever. That was why I thought a forum on this might be a good idea.

I'll work out a forum arrangement this evening or tomorrow.

Thanks Marc! You're all right!

Fire Girl Thanks You!

http://16949.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I guess I'll help moderate Marc.

What the latest scoop on ISO 18001 - Occupational Health & Safety. Anyone up to date on this one?

I'm seeing more 18K in the future...Example, I have 4 18K Lead Auditor courses scheduled and holding in the next 3 months and some of the short courses in the mix too. Apparently there's also an increasing numer of certifications being sought too. Sidney can probably say the say same thing.

OHSAS 18001 will probably be modified in the next year or so to keep it lined up with 14001:2004

So it's still in OHSAS's hands. Is this expected to end up in ISO's hands?

The last I heard...never, or at least not in the foreseeable future. The ISO shot douwn Health & Safety a couple of years ago because of blockage by some of the members (the USA being a prime blocker).

By the Way

Day before Yesterday "We Hindalco Ind. Ltd. (Unit - Birla Copper) were recommended for OHSAS 18001 Certification by KPMG Auditors"

This is for your information please

Regards,

Manoj Mathur

That's not an easy thing to do Manoj. Congradulations :applause:

KPMG is a good organization and I know they don't make recommendations unless they are deserved.

So it's still in OHSAS's hands. Is this expected to end up in ISO's hands?Marc, due to increased interest in the corporate social responsibility aspect, I believe it is a matter of time until ISO succumbs to market pressure and start working on a Occupational Health & Safety Management System Standard.

However, for the time being, the latest "official" position from ISO is the one contained in their press release, back in June 2000, which states:

"...On occupational health and safety (OH&S), the TMB received a report on the result of the vote by ISO members on a BSI (British Standards Institution) proposal that ISO establish a technical committee to transform BS 8800, the British OH&S management system guidelines into an ISO standard. Twenty-nine members had voted in favour of the proposal, but 20 others had voted negatively. Under ISO rules, acceptance of such a proposal requires approval by two-thirds of the members voting. The TMB decided, accordingly, that no such committee should be set up.
Following the ISO members' negative vote on the OHSMS proposal, TMB also decided that it would be not be appropriate to pursue an ILO (International Labour Office) offer for ISO to collaborate on the latter's own project to develop a standard on OHSMS.
This is the second time that ISO has decided not to launch OHSMS work, the previous occasion being three years ago, after a consultation of stakeholders through a major international workshop. . .."

And PS, there is already an "ISO 18001" document: ISO/IEC TR 18001:2004 Information technology -- Radio frequency identification for item management -- Application requirements profiles

I am very new to this forum, but I didn't see anything in this thread about the developing Z10 Occupational Health and Safety Standard. ANSI and OSHA have been involved in developing a new American National Standard as a consensus standard for the U.S. ANSI took a position that OHSAS 18001 was not a consensus standard when the U.S. voted against it as an international standard. Z10 has been issued in two draft stages and the final version is expected later this year.

Why did the US (ANSI actually) vote against adopting a OHS Standard? There was never a vote to adopt 18001 as an International Standard. The vote was to commit to the development of a standard.

Additionally, 18001 is already an International Specification...look who was involved in making it happen.

OHSAS 18001 has been developed with the assistance of the following co-operating organizations:
National Standards Authority of Ireland
South African Bureau of Standards
British Standards Institution
Bureau Veritas Quality International
Det Norske Veritas
Lloyds Register Quality Assurance
National Quality Assurance
SFS Certification
SGS Yarsley International Certification Services
Asociacio¬n Espanƒ ola de Normalizacio¬n y Certificacio¬n
International Safety Management Organisation Ltd
Standards and Industry Research Institute of Malaysia (Quality Assurance Services)
International Certification Services

Pretty impressive group.


BTW Brent, what's you expertise with 18001 and why the strong support for ANSI Z10?

Hi, :)

Does anyone have a sample ISO 18001 manual and oher documents?
I have been searching and I havent found any.
:thanx:

Why did the US (ANSI actually) vote against adopting a OHS Standard? There was never a vote to adopt 18001 as an International Standard. The vote was to commit to the development of a standard.

Additionally, 18001 is already an International Specification...look who was involved in making it happen.

OHSAS 18001 has been developed with the assistance of the following co-operating organizations:
National Standards Authority of Ireland
South African Bureau of Standards
British Standards Institution
Bureau Veritas Quality International
Det Norske Veritas
Lloyds Register Quality Assurance
National Quality Assurance
SFS Certification
SGS Yarsley International Certification Services
Asociacio¬n Espanƒ ola de Normalizacio¬n y Certificacio¬n
International Safety Management Organisation Ltd
Standards and Industry Research Institute of Malaysia (Quality Assurance Services)
International Certification Services

Pretty impressive group.


BTW Brent, what's you expertise with 18001 and why the strong support for ANSI Z10?

Randy,

First of all, I understand that ISO was two votes shy concering development of an OHS standard, one of which was the U.S. ANSI worked with OSHA and others to develop an American National Standard - Z10.

I like OHSAS 18001; since I come primarily from the environmental field, I find it is fairly simple and it looks a lot like ISO 14001, but for safety. When I audited for DNV, I found that the Safety Management System specifications that they audited against to look a like like OHSAS 18001. In fact, I am pretty sure that DNV's scheme played a part in the development of OHSAS 18001, which I would call a multi-national standard as opposed to an international consensus standard.

As far as my "strong support for Z10," I'm not going to tell you that I prefer it over OHSAS 18001. I personally don't find them that much different. The contractor for DOE (my main job) has chosen to put off implementing OHSAS 18001 until they figure out whether Z10 will become a certification standard in the U.S. For VPP participants there may be some advantage to Z10 over OHSAS 18001. For companies operating outside of the U.S., I would recommend OHSAS 18001 without hesitation.

As far as my "expertise," it is primarily EMS, with some QMS. I have had two courses in OHSAS 18001 including a lead auditor course, one from each of the two U.S. training providers that are RAB/QSA certified. I participated in a panel discussion last year concerning OHS standards at the Auditing Roundtable Annual Conference. I also have some experience in assisting our contractor with their OHSAS 18001 Gap Analysis.

I am looking for OHSAS 18001 auditing opportunities so that I can either become RAB/QSA or IRCA certified before 2006.

Brent Smith
www.isolouisiana.com
bsmith1311@aol.com

Randy,

First of all, I understand that ISO was two votes shy concering development of an OHS standard, one of which was the U.S. ANSI worked with OSHA and others to develop an American National Standard - Z10.
Brent, according to the last press release that I have read from ISO on this subject and I had cut and pasted part of the text here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=96126&postcount=19), only 29 out of 49 voting members voted for the OH&S ISO Management System Standard. As you know, there is a on-going concern by (especially) multi-national organizations that any management system standard issued by ISO will trigger a 3rd party certification "scheme", which, many object to.
The latest announcement that ISO has decided to move forward with a Corporate Social Responsibility GUIDANCE document has already infuriated some. We have an interesting on-going thread on that topic, here at the Cove.
Years ago the (at that time) RAB had announced that they were going to have an accreditation Scheme for the OHSAS 18001 Specification, but later, they changed their mind. I also hear that they (ANAB) are awaiting Z10 to become available so they can start an accreditation scheme. In my personal opinion, if ANSI really thinks that we should have a OH&SMS Standard, instead of pushing the Z10 document, and try to jock for position in the world against BS8800 and OHSAS 18001, ANSI should instigate the discussion AGAIN in the ISO Fora for an INTERNATIONAL Standard. It seems to me that times have changed and the World is prepared for an ISO Std. on OH&S. Too bad it can NOT be ISO 18001, since the designation is already taken.

And Welcome to the Cove. http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/bighug.gif

Brent, according to the last press release that I have read from ISO on this subject and I had cut and pasted part of the text here (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=96126&postcount=19), only 29 out of 49 voting members voted for the OH&S ISO Management System Standard. As you know, there is a on-going concern by (especially) multi-national organizations that any management system standard issued by ISO will trigger a 3rd party certification "scheme", which, many object to.
The latest announcement that ISO has decided to move forward with a Corporate Social Responsibility GUIDANCE document has already infuriated some. We have an interesting on-going thread on that topic, here at the Cove.
Years ago the (at that time) RAB had announced that they were going to have an accreditation Scheme for the OHSAS 18001 Specification, but later, they changed their mind. I also hear that they (ANAB) are awaiting Z10 to become available so they can start an accreditation scheme. In my personal opinion, if ANSI really thinks that we should have a OH&SMS Standard, instead of pushing the Z10 document, and try to jock for position in the world against BS8800 and OHSAS 18001, ANSI should instigate the discussion AGAIN in the ISO Fora for an INTERNATIONAL Standard. It seems to me that times have changed and the World is prepared for an ISO Std. on OH&S. Too bad it can NOT be ISO 18001, since the designation is already taken.

And Welcome to the Cove. http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/bighug.gif

I totally agree about ANSI; I would prefer that they start the ball rolling again for an international occupational safety and health standard. Even if they propose Z10 as that standard, the chances are that the resulting standard will be some kind of compromise between the two standards. I would prefer a "beefed up" OHSAS 18001 as that standard, because, as I have already said, I don't think that the two standards are that much different. Whatever standard results it should be consistent with ISO 14001-2004 and ISO 19011. Another approach would be for one of the countries that has adopted OHSAS 18001 to propose a reworked version to ISO.

Hi, :)

Does anyone have a sample ISO 18001 manual and oher documents?
I have been searching and I havent found any.
:thanx:

I haven't had any luck either; unless a company voluntarily posts their manual, the only thing that I know about is a very expensive book (Integrating Quality, Environmental, Health and Safety Systems by Mary F. Mcdonald, Terry Mors, and Ann and Eddie Phillips, ISBN 0-86587-823-4, 2001, $495.00)

Hey Brent...you know I'm jerking your chain don't ya?

Has anyone applied to IRCA or RAB/QSA for Occupational Health and Safety Management System Auditor or Lead Auditor certification?

I found this Health & Safety Policy Manual (http://www.kcom.com/investorrelations/_docs/HealthAndSafetyPolicy.pdf) on the web. Does it help anyone?

Has anyone applied to IRCA or RAB/QSA for Occupational Health and Safety Management System Auditor or Lead Auditor certification?

I've got my IRCA packet ready for submission..As you can tell by my employment affiliation getting audit time isn't an issue and in the past 6 weeks alone I've delivered (4) 18001 LA courses here and in Canada.

I've got my IRCA packet ready for submission..As you can tell by my employment affiliation getting audit time isn't an issue and in the past 6 weeks alone I've delivered (4) 18001 LA courses here and in Canada.

IRCA lists a number of people from the U.S. as Provisional Auditors, but none as Auditors or Lead Auditors. I have checked out their requirements; they do allow one of the four audits (20 days) at the Auditor level to be an EMS audit. I've checked with them that my Lead Auditor training course meets their requirements and it does. If I can get in three OHSAS 18001 audits before 2006, I plan to apply at the Auditor level.

Another option is RAB/QSA; with the merger with QSA, they can now offer OHS Auditor and Lead Auditor certifications. However, with a recent staff resignation and their usual relative non-responsiveness, I have had problems getting answers from them.

An issue for Lead Auditor certication for both IRCA and RAB/QSA is the issue of having two witnessed lead audits. Since no one is certified in the U.S. as an OHS Lead Auditor, the pool for a wtinessing lead auditor is zero. Based on e-mails from IRCA, they will consider a certified EMS Lead Auditor with OHSAS 18001 experience as a witness.

EMS LA w/18K experience? Been there and done that.

I think the real issue with the OHSAS Lead quantity in the USA is not so much that nobody qualifies, it's that it isn't relevant. We have quite a few folks (as Sindey and many others do) that have more than enough experience to meet the requirement, but who really needs it? Case in point...I'm doing a 3 day 18k assessment this week and one of the other 4 auditors is an EMS-LA just as I am. I could witness him or he could witness me as the Lead.

Don't paint yourself into a corner focusing on 18K audits. There may be organizations out there whose system may meet all the essential elements you can audit and they don't use 18K.

I totally agree about ANSI; I would prefer that they start the ball rolling again for an international occupational safety and health standard. Even if they propose Z10 as that standard, the chances are that the resulting standard will be some kind of compromise between the two standards. I would prefer a "beefed up" OHSAS 18001 as that standard, because, as I have already said, I don't think that the two standards are that much different. Whatever standard results it should be consistent with ISO 14001-2004 and ISO 19011. Another approach would be for one of the countries that has adopted OHSAS 18001 to propose a reworked version to ISO.
This week I attended the AIHce conference in Anaheim. Had a chance to talk to a gentleman that was very involved in the ANSI Z10 early developments. I asked him why ANSI voted against an OHSMS Standard under the ISO auspices, but decided to move forward with the Z10 document. In short, his answer was that Z10 was written in a way to minimize legal exposure. I could not clearly understand the rationale....but, from what I gather Z10 is really close to being released.
I can see the near future:
Ladies and gentlemen, in this corner, with thousands of adopters around the World, weighting 357 pounds OHSAS 18001. Her opponent, brand new standard, tip the scales at ???? pounds, ANSI Z10.....

Our company recently became registered to OHSAS 18001 - so it get's my vote as the standard of choice :agree1:

I actually tuned in today hoping to find a place to post a question related to safety procedures... so I'd also vote for an 18001/safety management forum. Even tho a lot of folks here may not be safety gurus, most of us are the document folks ... and I hope I'll be able to tap some resources even on the safety side of things.

... And along those lines, I have a safety manual I can post. We have a fully integrated system for ISO/TS 16949, ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18001 - excluding the manuals, since they line up with the standards. We have tho integrated our 18001 with our 14001 manual. So if your looking for a system manual to define your system in terms of the standard, here's my version.

I live by the motto that "imitation is the highest form of flattery" but I add the caveat that if you find ways to improve my documents, I'd greatly appreciate it if you share it with me :cool:

Sidney, I think I made a posting awhile back about my attending the ASSE convention last year in Vegas. The Z10 committee had 1 of their "guru's" there huffing and puffing the virtues of Z10. One of the 1st things he said was that there is no recognized "International Standard" for health and safety. After picking my as* off the floor and catching my breath I was compelled to correct this sharlitan on the spot. I acknowledged that he was correct about the "International Standard" bit but was very wrong and actually untruthful for the purposes of trying to drum up business for ANSI and its strap-hangers. I spoke out to a group of about 150-200 that there was actually an "Internationally recognized Occupational Health and Safety Specification " document called OHSAS 18001, that ANSI had been one of the major stumbling blocks for the development of an ISO Standard a few years back and that ANSI was just trying to money-grub in the H&S market. The guy didn't deny what I said! I continued to tell the group that OHSAS 18001 was a truly international document because of the groups and organizations that were involved in its development (of which both your and my employer were and still are a part of as well as Spain, S. Africa and others).

I don't know why I went into my tirade above, but it felt good.

Thanks for your contribution Karen. I know that some folks may find it useful. BTW, I think I hammered you in another thread about the CO program...nothing personal

Randy, I remeber your post very well. In fairness, what some of the people that oppose OHSAS 18001 state is the fact that the organizations that were behind the development of the document, our employers included, are for the most part Standards and Certification Bodies. Technically, they claim, there was very little input and participation from "Industry" and Regulatory Bodies.
I remember that the RAB (now ANAB) had posted news that they were going to establish an accreditation Scheme for the OHSAS 18001 Std, but dropped the idea, months later. Could it be because ANSI started working on the Z10? And ANSI-RAB are a joint organization?
You are right about the revenue generation aspect of standards. I just think it is not benefitial for competing standards to jock for position, in detriment of an international document.
Time will tell who comes on top.
OHSAS 18001:argue:ANSI Z10

Last week I talked to someone who is on the ANSI Z10 Committee. Although the final version of the standard was due to come out next month, it does not appear likely to be on schedule since an editing sub-committee is still working on it.

I heard from another source that OSHA is considering integrating the Z10 standard as part of requirements for membership in the VPP (Voluntary Protection Program).

Don't assume that I favor Z10 over OHSAS 18001; I find Z10 more prescriptive, but I generally find more elements of the two standards in common than different. I would like to see an international safety and health standard proposed again through ISO, with the probable outcome being a standard that has features in common with both standa :) rds.

Whats really funny is ANSI's opposition to a Health & Safety standard a few years ago when it was proposed to the ISO. The standard proposed was based on 18001 and ANSI said that US business and other "groups" were opposed to it because it was too prescriptive among other things.

As far as I'm concerned this is just a money ploy on behalf of ANSI and they've got some boobs in OSHA to go along.

An "American" standard will not be accepted in 90+% of other countries, whereas something that is international like 18001 will be and in fact is.

Last week I talked to someone who is on the ANSI Z10 Committee. Although the final version of the standard was due to come out next month, it does not appear likely to be on schedule since an editing sub-committee is still working on it.
The Z10 document was supposed to be released last year. Makes one wonder why the continuous delay in releasing it.:confused: If you thought the ISO TC bureaucracy was slow......

The Z10 document was supposed to be released last year. Makes one wonder why the continuous delay in releasing it.:confused: If you thought the ISO TC bureaucracy was slow......

As a Federal Government bureaucrat (U.S. Department of Energy), I have some idea about why it is taking so long. If the OSHA lawyers got their hands on the standard to review it, that could be part of the problem.

Recent news on the Z10 availability >>HERE<< (http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/Z10release.pdf)

ANAB has announced it's pilot program for accreditation of CB's to the ANSI Z10 Standard. http://www.anab.org/HTMLFiles/docs/HeadsUp/HU59.pdf

Funny that, ISO 19011 is meant for quality & environmental management audits, so, technically it would not apply directly to OHSMS. Let's see if ISO 19011 is invoked for this program too.

Our company recently became registered to OHSAS 18001 - so it get's my vote as the standard of choice


Am I a little behind the curve? I took training in OHSAS 18001 a couple years ago, but understood it was not a certifiable standard as yet. Has that changed, and you were certified to it, or did you get a "Letter of Compliance?" Thanks.

, but understood it was not a certifiable standard as yet. .There are hundreds of organizations certified to OHSAS 18001 around the World. Any standard/specification is certifiable to. The difference is that there was not an accreditation scheme established for that specification. I believe that RvA established one, recently.

Ok, but,

is ISO really going to make a Occupational Health and Safety standard to “replace” OHSAS 18001:1999?
From what I heard this week, they tried, but there’s still no international accordance for creating WG to build a standard...:)

AV

is ISO really going to make a Occupational Health and Safety standard to “replace” OHSAS 18001:1999? Nope! They will NOT.
From what I heard this week, they tried, but there’s still no international accordance for creating WG to build a standard...They tried and failed. TWICE! In the US, ANSI just released ANSI Z10 and Canada is/has releasing their own OHSMS Standard.
Politics.

Ok, but,

is ISO really going to make a Occupational Health and Safety standard to “replace” OHSAS 18001:1999?
From what I heard this week, they tried, but there’s still no international accordance for creating WG to build a standard...:)

AV

NO, NO, NO!!!! A thousand times NO!

And if ILO will make same pressure in order to have a world recognized OSH standard?
Remember that as in the US European standards are not very common, the same happens in Europe with US and Canadian pro-certification standards.
ISO is for sure the most world wide organization to perform this job.

What I read about ISO and the execution of an Occupational Health and Safety world standard, is that they seem to have "lost the train", but it wasn't the last train...:rolleyes:

Regards
AV

Here's the ILO Standard and it isn't new, but it is wimpy.

ISO is going to “fight back” and we’ll have a world wide SST Standard. From what I know, this was the first time that there was a voting before a general consensus around the items of SST that could be on the eventual standard by ISO.
The same happened with quality almost 20 years ago. There are quality standards since 1959, and ISO 9001 started in 87...
This is just a question of having a common referential for world wide business...
I have ANSI Z10 here in Europe, even thought is a good reference, for us is just a "Guide line"...:)

thanks,I wantted this standard for a long time.