This might generate some discussion.

A. Could participation in this forum qualify as CPD for ISO 9000/14000 RAB Auditors?

1. This forum is sponsored.

2. This forum encompasses appropriate subject matter.

3. Participation can be documented.

B. Who could sign off as the activity provider?

Have we got any takers to the topic????

No guts - no glory

Randy,

Interesting question. I have wondered about that myself, for my ASQ accreditations. In the ASQ, they mention that writing and publishing papers is one means of accumulating the required CEU to maintain certification. In general, what the ASQ wants from a candidate is for them to maintain current knowledge of quality fields and increase awareness in these fields (quality in general). If I could, I would use these posts as a means of keeping current, learning new things, and helping out where ever I could. What merit is it worth? On a personal level, plenty. On the perspective of the ASQ (or RAB or anyone else), the answer remains a mystery to me.

Regards,

Kevin

Documenting time spent. I wonder what they would say to a pile of print outs? Not much I imagine. I remember Marc mentioning that you could browse the entire forum on a search to find all your posts. Perhaps a list of visits and number of posts would signify something. Perhaps handing a few select print outs of the discussions would help to support your contention even more. These print outs may also serve to indicate to the powers that be that your input was constructive and in-line with the focus of the organization. Perhaps they will have to verify this, though I'm pretty sure that they won't want to open that can of worms.

You can do a search, but the search engine isn't all that great - it's supposed to be improved, what ever that means, in the next version due in a couple of weeks (well, this current version was supposed to have been an 'improvement' as well...). Don't get me wrong - the engine works but it has some 'quirks'.

If there's anything I can do to help out just let me know.

[This message has been edited by admin (edited 19 August 1999).]

I started batting this around because I have to maintain a log of CPD's. In my location (Barstow, CA)there is only so much I can do. The area has limited resources and almost no networking potential (face to face).

Webster defines a 'forum' as a medium for open discussion. This place fits that description.

The main problems I see are:
- documenting time spent, and
- verification.

IMHO, I doubt very much you could document it to their satisfaction.....correspondance courses count, ASQ conferences, Industry conferences, ASQ meetings.......Preparation of training and presentation materials, and so on are much easier.

HEY MARC....we talked a bit about online training here........what ya say, wanna do it? How much interest is there, guys.....Who wants some online classes offerred here? And what topics?

Anyone call RAB?

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 23 August 1999).]

I'm game for anything. I have access to a server, obviously, but the hard part is to figure out a structure both for the course material and for the interface. Has anyone done any online training to have ideas on the interface and such? Tests can be on-line forms. Ideas folks?

I'm game for anything. I do not have much opportunity for any kind of ISO contact, training or anything else where I'm at. I check this site 6-8 times a day for any tid-bit I can get. I'll probably never get out of the Provisional catagory because of no apparent hope of getting involved in any 3rd party stuff, so all I have is currency to maintain.

ZDU.com has on line training you can view....neat stuff. My local ASQ section is starting to get one together..i have a contact in the UK that does interactive CD rom stuff..I'll keep you posted

Randy.....I bet a registrar would chomp at the bit to get involved with an untapped area...who are the companies out there using?

Some will offer audit time to qualified auditors in return for leads.......

Probably everybody is offering stuff. It seems that the RAB allows a broad mix for CPD. According to the way I read my manual from the RAB this forum falls within the scope of allowable activities for credit.

I would be interested in some type of on-line training. Might even be able to get my company to break loose with some developmental seed money.

Ben

Online training at what level? Suggest a few course titles.

My original intent was to utilize the topics that are discussed on the whole COVE as the material for CPD.

The way topics are brought up, disected, discussed and everything else can be looked upon as providing people like us, in the auditing realm, a means of furthering our understanding and skills. It doesn't matter if it's ISO or QS or whatever, most of the subject matter applies. Or it at least gets you to thinking.

I personally have gained a better understanding in things like document control, work instructions and other topics from what I have read here on these pages.

Lets try to follow the old phrase"KISS". To much organization could kill my original thought.

Sounds reasonable. The 'next' version of this forum software (due in a week or two) is supposed to support multiple forum moderators. I think it's limited to 4 moderators per forum as I remember, however. Maybe being a forum moderator would be a 'point' in a person's favor if trying to justify this as continuing education or whatever.

Then again - the board has been slow as of late. Not a lot of new questions. This may be in part due to the nature of the forums. I changed to this format from the 'old' threaded mode software so information could be more easily grouped and searched. I believe one hell of a lot of questions have been answered here already. On the other hand, summer is coming to a close. Mebbe vacations are part of it. Surely this place isn't boring!?!

I think it's interesting.

I even check out things that I have no involvement in at all, like the QS stuff.

It has been said that knowledge is power, and reading what occurs on this forum imparts knowledge to those that desire it.

Sounds fancy huh?

Marc,

Definately not boring. I think you are right in suspecting that folks were on vacation and likely to pick up the pace in the fall/winter months.

As for the format: it is the best that I have seen on the internet so far (blows away the ASQNet). Your idea on the moderators is a good one. It will help sustain involvement. One thing that I have noticed at the ASQNet is that often questions go unanswered. I have not seen that here. Always a moderator or contributor ready to supply help or to second the motion.

I had a discussion in the ASQNet to see if Randy's thoughts would provoke thought there. I received a positive response from two of the moderators in that they thought that this uncharted area might prove worthwhile. I did receive one negative input from a contributor, whose thinking was that a collection of ideas or thoughts did not warrant consideration and were often wrong. The question does remain as to how credit will be structured. But I think it isn't any more difficult in that the other, somewhat subjective contributing areas, already exist. I will keep tuned to this discussion to see how this will sift out, and contribute where I can. I wouldn't want to see this thought die prematurely.

Regards,

Kevin

I honestly believe that the discussions which occur on this site meet the requirements of a forum for CPD credit as specified by the RAB. It really doesn't matter if a contributor is right or wrong as long as discussion takes place. That's what a forum is for. At least that what Webster says in the dictionary. The only difference between this type of forum and the one you may attend is that we can't see each other. Not seeing each other may actually improve the quality of the discussion taking place. We have time to think about our responses, and to research the subject. We also don't have to worry about any public embarassment about our shortcomings.

I have recommended this site to other folks. Whether or not they use it is their business. I actually look on it a one of the highlights of my day,hoping something is going on I can respond to. I just wish more people in my particular field were involved in it.

My plan - if I live up to it - is to rebuild the site over the next 2 months. Clean it up and simplify it. The forums have really changed my focus - I don't update the site as I used to and - well, I have some thoughts.

Wait until the new forum software is up and running for a month. We can get the moderator situation addressed and then - write the RAB (you, not me) and make a proposal. I'm willing to do whatever necessary (within reason) on this end to work this out but you folks are going to have to come up with the proposal and contact the RAB.

Well, the goal is that no question go unanswered - which is what I ask of moderators. If some forums have multiple moderators in the future it will help. Scott moderated the QS9000 forum back when I opened these forums. I eventually changed it to me because he was too busy (or whatever) to stop by daily or to at least respond to moderator notices (when someone posts in a moderated forum, the moderator is notified by e-mail. Example follows:

--> Subject: Moderator Notification: New Post in QS9000 Issues Date:
--> Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:16:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Forum_Mail@qs9000.com To:
--> cheech@qs9000.com
-->
--> Hello, Marc Smith!
-->
--> Marc Smith has just replied to the topic entitled - MSA and the 3rd
--> Edition - in the QS9000 Issues forum of Cayman Systems Information
--> Forums.
-->
--> This topic is located at
--> http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000186.html
-->
--> Here is what the user posted:
-->
--> quote:The problem is that if I was to carry out an MSA study on each
--> 'live' part, I would have to carry out...

I really do hate it when there is an unanswered question. But - I miss some from time to time my self.

When I get the new software up I'll post an announcement and we can see who wants to be a moderator in one or more forums. It will be a week or two.

Randy,

I agree with your comment about the fact that folks may be right or wrong with responses within the forum, and in fact, doesn't matter all that much.

The contributor who rebutted (at the other forum)had written an article which was published several years back and had to go through several screenings and rewrites before the article appeared. As part of the ASQ accreditation maintenance, publishing articles or books count, no mention of forum discussion (the rules haven't changed much and they were created before the INTERNET). It was this contributors opinion that writing posts in a forum was not as significant as writing an article or book (often wrong or merely thoughts or ideas). Forum posts do not require screening or rewrites and are required to pass a minimum standard (whatever that might be, by the way). I don't agree with this view point. Books and articles are often as wrong as comments made anywhere. As you stated, whether a comment made is right or wrong, it is the exchange that forwards the thinking process. Just because one person writes something perceived to be wrong, doesn't mean that 10 other people aren't there agreeing with it (regardless of whether they post support or not). All 11 have equal opportunity to change their view based on the "correct" information be posted by another contributor. That is what is significant to me. Not as many "gurus" here than some would imagine. Many Quality (and non Quality) professionals and nonprofessionals here learning and sharing. All good stuff!

Marc,

Give me a shout if you are looking for moderators in the future, I would like to help you out if I can.

Regards to both,

Kevin

Any new thoughts on this?

Obviously this is an oldie - And the site has gone through many transitions since September 1999....

If you look at the ASQ discussion board archives, I had suggested this more than once. ASQ did not reject this idea though. ASQ offer RU for participating in Chat events organized by ASQ. Chat events on a specific subject are much focused than discussion forums. Moderators can bring the discussion back to track real time.

In the discussion forum, it is a bit tricky. Discussions can drift off topic very often and takes time for the moderator to bring back to track. It will be a bit challenging to set a formula for RU in discussion forums.

Would it be the number of posts under the thread ?
Or
Number posts relevant to the thread?
Or
Average time spent reading the postings everyday?
Or
Average rating of the thread as voted by the users?
Or
The Karma gained during the period?

For a good detailed posting we typically spend between 30-45 minutes average.
We also typically spend close to 1~2 hours total/ day browsing the postings on an average. 0.1 RU is equivalent to 1 hour of education.

Based on the above information,
Is it possible to equate 0.1 RU for every 2 postings? Or 1 hour of browsing a “subject” discussion forum?

Good point to discuss. I hope this will trigger the thoughts of various “Covers”.

Regards,
Govind.

Also see: Using the Cove for CPD (Continuing Professional Development) with RABQSA (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=18697)