Your Opinions and thoughts about the Controversial Topics forum.

This is under discussion in the Moderators forum. Here is part of what I posted there:

I am planning to close the controversial topics forum. My thought is to let people start controversial discussions in their personal blogs. That will keep the posts off the threads listings and confine responsibility for the topic to the person who starts it in their blog. That way the forums in general will not be 'polluted' by 'controversial' topics.

Moderators would not be expected to 'patrol' or moderate blogs.

Your thoughts?

Some conversation took place and I thought about it some more. I then posted:

I want to allow people to be able to express their views on what ever they want, but in a way where they are 'separate' from the forum as a whole. That's why I figured if we funneled 'controversial' topics to blogs, it would keep the 'Latest/Recent Posts' listing clean and people would have to actively seek out a blog discussion. I figure if they go that far, they can argue all they want in their blogs without affecting the forum as a whole.

I *can* leave the 'controversial topics' forum open, but to me it (I'm open to your opinions, obviously) makes more sense to me to simply close it off to new posts and threads (existing threads would remain but would be closed to new posts), and have a notice and link so people who want to start up controversial topics can do so in their blog.

More opinions and advice, please.

More conversation and I posted:

As I was going through the settings, I remembered I can turn off indexing on a forum by forum basis. I have turned off indexing of that forum so we shouldn't see any posts / threads in the Latest Threads listing. That will make it a forum which isn't even searchable - Nothing in it will turn up in any search. People will have to actively seek out that forum and go into it.

And after some MORE conversation and I posted:

In the Civil Discussion thread, Brad got me to thinking. I have been looking at a lot of forum sites. All the popular ones have discussion areas for 'off topic' community discussion forums, and almost all make the 'controversial' ones we have here look relatively tame. On my end, I HAVE to look at some diversity if I want to keep the site growing. I keep coming back to the same thing - For the most part people who complain are people who purposely go into forums which they really don't have an interest in, and which have KEEP OUT IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED warnings. I come back to my comparisons to the many very popular forums I visit. This forum is very tame. As in Brad's reverence to the TSG (http://forums.techguy.org/) forum, go there and take a look. Look at their Civilized Debate (http://forums.techguy.org/62-civilized-debate/) forum. In contrast, this forum is not only tame, we almost make Readers Digest look like a smut rag. Yet - The TSG forum is extremely popular. And I don't believe that the TSG forum is deviating from its core purpose by having forums which are not the core focus of the site which is technical support, just as is the case here.

Does anyone here truthfully think we can have a forum here where no one will ever be offended? Does anyone here think that is possible? Heck, we've had moderators berate newbies for posts in the 'business' forums for posting questions that they deem 'not sufficiently academic', or because the poster personally irritates them for one reason or another (myself included now and again). I think that is a LOT worse than a bit of 'questionable' humor, and does FAR greater damage to the forum and its reputation that the few 'questionable' jokes we have here from time to time. I must admit that from time to time I ask myself whether at times we are OVER moderating.

I would like to ask each of you to give me your thoughts on this. I DO want to remind everyone that the politics issue originally came up back around 2000 and a new forum was started to contain political posts. It was mainly an issue of several people throwing Clinton insults (for lack of better wordsmithing) into posts in the business threads. Things did get hot in the political forum and I eventually had to shut it down. But... It did stop political 'comparisons' in 'business' threads, and that was a different time. That was long ago and things are changing.

Before you reply, I do ask that you to visit the TSG (http://forums.techguy.org/) forum and take a look. Please take a look at their Civilized Debate (http://forums.techguy.org/62-civilized-debate/) forum. The TSG forum is, in my opinion, a very respectable forum which sticks to its 'core purpose' of 'People Helping People'.

If there is going to be a significant change here, I envision it as a model of what I would like to do.

For the Moderators reading this, I want to state emphatically: I personally will monitor and moderate the forum and will NOT expect ANY moderator to participate in any way. You can if you WANT to, but it is in NO way an expectation of mine.

By the way, my lady friend knows the Bible by heart. When she heard the Marxist question in an interview From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need she said she was disappointed that Biden didn't simply cite the Bible. But then - She knows just about every verse in the Bible by heart.

Despite the secular nature of Marxism, it has been said that the inspiration for this slogan lies in Christianity.[citation needed] An earlier exposition of the idea is found in the Bible, in Acts of the Apostles. Luke describes the organization of the first Christian congregations following the death of Jesus:

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (Acts 2:44-45)
...
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (Acts 4:34-35) My lady fiend cited some verses from Matthew.

Anyway - I'm telling you my thoughts and asking for yours. What are your thoughts on the Controversial Topics forum? Can you handle it or will it cause you to stop coming here?

As a 'Parting Shot', I want to cite the following moderator comments because they express my feelings on this: :2cents: While I wasn't overly amused by the two jokes, I really don't care. I don't have to add them to my collection, I need never repeat them, or even re-read them. I would say "who cares" but we know who cares by reading these responses. The jokes did not single out an individual, they were fairly tasteless, but I've been exposed to far, far worse. I, for one, am just really getting tired of the direction we are moving when every single post that gets added to any thread is scrutinised to death. I will even go so far to say that some of the "background checks" that are done on fairly bland posts smacks of Big Brother. For crying out loud! My children are not going to read this forum. My mother would not ever be reading this forum. If I had a wife (:lmao:) the last thing she would want to do is to be subjected to more "quality related stuff" and would not read the forum. And even if she did, she would be an adult and we would both think it insulting for some man to try to censor what she read to protect her "gentle sensibilities".

That being said, I do believe that we should not have people making personal attacks on politics and religion. I will go along with what Marc decides, and I will do it to the best of my abilities, but if anyone here thinks I am here to be a big fish in a little pond, you are wrong. I am no better than any of the other posters who are not moderators, I just have some different responsibilities.

Another moderator comment: The Controversial Forum, is kinda a safe haven for some people. They can speak their mind, have freedom to start topics that are true to their hearts. I do agree that sometimes we do over moderate (I do occasionally), by bringing issue up that really aren't that important, in the Mod's forum. But, if I have a question about something, I ask it in the Mod's forum.

The Controversial forum allows people to take a break from reality, by posting Jokes and stuff and even post things about relationships and marriage (Thanks Jan for your comment on the thread that I started from Hershal's original post). Also look at the one (even though it wasn't posted in the Controversial Forum) abut the Registrar writing an NC on something that was found during an Internal Audit. That got heated sometimes, but it pretty much stayed on Topic, because I was watching it very closely to keep it on topic. I was insulted on that thread, a very clever insult, and I thanked them for the insult in a PM. Not a big thing. If it would have been a direct attack, then things would have been different, and I would have spoke my mind not publicly mind you, but via a PM.

We must realize that the quality field can be stressful at times (I know that we all do understand that), and the Controversial Forum allows them the ability to take a break from the real world. To get them back on track for the rest of the day. It becomes a breath of fresh air.

The Cove has grown, into a small community, of professionals in the field, and being that I joined back in Jan 2006 I have seen it grow; and that is only two years ago (almost 3 years).

Over all, the Controversial Forum has it's benefits to Covers. I think it should remain active. Maybe keep the topics away from Politics and maybe religion.


The First BIG disclaimer: I also want to say that in part this is a selfish interest on my end in that I believe it will increase the number of people who visit regularly, which in turn means an increase in visitors, which, of course, means I make more money.

The Second BIG disclaimer: I like some of the political discussions. I don't care a snit about religious discussions, but when I see that as a thread topic I just don't open and read the thread. I really don't see religious discussions as a problematic issue here because I don't envision many, if any, religious discussions. Politics is a whole different issue.


Your turn. What are your thoughts?

I find no appeal in a Controversial Topics Forum.

It has already been stated this is like a virtual office where if I walk into the break room and don't like the topic or language, I can leave the room. I am not naive enough to assume that because I don't like the forum it should be closed. If others enjoy the forum it should be left to Marc to determine if it is injurious to The Cove. If he wants to keep it, I always have the option to stay out.

I will keep returning to The Cove with or without the forum.

Dave

Well, being controversial I tend to like the forum...just kidding. But to each his own. If you don't like what’s on the TV channel turn the channel. You don’t have to go to the forum and read – but I bet people that say they won’t go will…:lol:

Having a place where people want to debate and discuss topics with respectful conversation can’t be a bad thing. Moderated of course for the sake of common good.

My only questions would be will this become the fastest growing topic taking away from the other business related topics (doubtful but possible) and will it be the hardest to moderate?

My only questions would be will this become the fastest growing topic taking away from the other business related topics (doubtful but possible) and will it be the hardest to moderate? I would be VERY surprised if it became much more popular than it currently is, and I have it set so that I get a copy by email of every new thread and every new post in an existing thread. I am solely responsible for moderating it.

And remember that new threads and new posts to existing threads in that forum do not show up in the 'Latest Posts' or other listings, nor do posts/threads show up in any search, so people will have to actively seek out the forum to read and/or participate in it.

That's good to know because the last thing I would want is more effort being required because I post so many controversial things...

I am confident that the business side of the house will always be the attraction and the meat and potatoes of this site; just would not want you to get overwhelmed more than you probably already are…:nopity:

As long as flames and attacks are kept under control then there is no problem. We are a society based on discussion, lively debate should be included in all aspects of our lives.

Yet I am concerned this site will get censored if we open up policitcal debates. While we take for granted the ability to complain of our government most on this planet can not.

With that said I think the way it is will keep this forums from being blacklisted. The recent thread on democracy is a good example. What I posted would most likley not get past some censors, and it is such a powerful concept that once people understand what sets this country apart from the rest, that concept frightens leaders.

So Yes I think it should be open to debate, but you may pay a heavy price for it. The countrys and people that most need help in quality issues may not be able to come here at all. Sadly this is not one big happy world.

I would be VERY surprised if it became much more popular than it currently is, and I have it set so that I get a copy by email of every new thread and every new post in an existing thread. I am solely responsible for moderating it.


Marc... with due respect... do you really believe you can watch all that adequately without any help, plus all the other stuff going on?



And remember that new threads and new posts to existing threads in that forum do not show up in the 'Latest Posts' or other listings, nor do posts/threads show up in any search, so people will have to actively seek out the forum to read and/or participate in it.

That part I did not pick up on before. I certainly don't want to see all those titles in the most current threads.

There seems to be this notion of the Civil discussion forum being a “channel” or a “room”, that one goes in and out of, or one chooses or does not choose. OK.

Why that room? I’m just asking, does the group here feel they really need a place to talk about war, religion, politics, etc.? Are there not other suitable venues for that?

Why is this discussion not about controversial forum vs. a veterans forum, a do-it-yourself forum, a motorcycle/car racing forum or a true chit-chat forum? I’m just saying, there is more than one channel that can be added. Broadcast companies pick up channels and programs for ratings, but also keep things within an appropriate mix, and in alignment with their strategy.

But say if you are going to add that channel, like anything else in life, I think it’s going to have to be monitored, and a norm established. Say you opened the forum tomorrow, is “How stupid can the President be??” appropriate? What are the boundaries, and who is going to fairly establish when someone has crossed that boundary?

Yes, if it’s put in, people can stay out of it if they are offended. I just think it’s going to take some work to make that “channel” worth something to tune into in the first place.

NOTE: Marc has my full support whatever he chooses to do.:agree1::yes: I’m just giving my opinion, as he asked for it.

Marc... with due respect... do you really believe you can watch all that adequately without any help, plus all the other stuff going on? I will do my best.

That part I did not pick up on before. I certainly don't want to see all those titles in the most current threads. Neither do I. People who want to participate in that forum have to navigate to it.

Once there, other than the Search function, everything else works the same. You can 'Subscribe' (email notifications of new posts and/or threads) to the forum and/or threads within it.

Marc... with due respect... do you really believe you can watch all that adequately without any help, plus all the other stuff going on?




That part I did not pick up on before. I certainly don't want to see all those titles in the most current threads.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me to have those items in the most current threads.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me to have those items in the most current threads.

Same here.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me to have those items in the most current threads.

Same here.
That's the way it has been up until the recent controversy when I changed it. I have some hesitation in 'turning it back on' because of some of the feedback I have received. And I want to try to keep from 'polluting' the 'Latest Post' listings if it is a significant issue to people.

But - I am open to more opinions which is why I started this public thread in the first place. I hope if others feel that way that they speak up.

Personally I'm ambivalent about it. I look at the listing and screen out what I'm not interested in.

Marc - I think the fact that this thread along with a couple of the other ones you started this morning about humor and purpose have been hot topics with a lot of people responding but what is interesting is the number of other topics getting responses still out numbers these three...

My point is even with discussions on these three issues; people are still helping people more in other topics and that's what this has always been about.:agree1:

Personally, it wouldn't bother me to have those items in the most current threads.

Same here.

Well... I guess my wishes were a little more selfish. Each of us that are moderators do things differently (but with the game goal). I always check in on current threads to assure proper titles, appropriate forums and the like. I will watch people who post in threads I'm not part of. If they're mods or people I "know", I don't need to go there. When there are new names I haven't seen before, I drop in just to check if it not SPAM and such.

If all the pop up in the current threads, since it does not show which forum they are in, it makes it all the more difficult. Whereas if it's turned off and a controversial topic shows up, then I know it needs to be moved.

And remember that new threads and new posts to existing threads in that forum do not show up in the 'Latest Posts' or other listings, nor do posts/threads show up in any search, so people will have to actively seek out the forum to read and/or participate in it. NOTE: After testing it appears the fix I did to eliminate the Controversial Topics threads from appearing in listing is not working as I expected. I am troubleshooting this. It may end up that I will not be able to eliminate them from the listings. I'll keep everyone up to date.

NOTE: After testing it appears the fix I did to eliminate the Controversial Topics threads from appearing in listing is not working as I expected. I am troubleshooting this. It may end up that I will not be able to eliminate them from the listings. I'll keep everyone up to date.

The funny thing is that I'm not much of a driller so I generally only participate in the Controversial Topics Forum when it IS on the latest list. Today was the first day I went in to look at it just to see what political amusements were being made. It was pretty stade and boring. :mg:

If you succeed in getting that filter to work, I'll probably never know what's going on, never know what's a hot topic and never participate in such. (That's probably a good thing some of the time.) :bonk: I don't usually go looking for fights you know. :notme: (I mean lively discussions.)
I don't delve that much unless I'm looking for something. So if there are alot of others like me you'll probably diminish that Forum (for those who don't like it) just by hiding it.

JMHO

Briz

Personally I'm ambivalent about it. I look at the listing and screen out what I'm not interested in.

That works for me, I check posts since last visit, and look at the ones I find interesting.

If something bugs me, I can reply, or just scroll on. Mostly I scroll on.

These non quality topics help round me out - I tend to get too focused and isolated in the quality World and these serve as a reminder to me that there is a big World out there where quality doesn't even exist.

Someone worried that these threads would cause the forum to be censored - by whom?

Someone worried that these threads would cause the forum to be censored - by whom?

Justincredible mentioned it here:


Yet I am concerned this site will get censored if we open up policitcal debates. While we take for granted the ability to complain of our government most on this planet can not.

With that said I think the way it is will keep this forums from being blacklisted. The recent thread on democracy is a good example. What I posted would most likley not get past some censors, and it is such a powerful concept that once people understand what sets this country apart from the rest, that concept frightens leaders.

So Yes I think it should be open to debate, but you may pay a heavy price for it. The countrys and people that most need help in quality issues may not be able to come here at all. Sadly this is not one big happy world.

His point is one to be considered. He's not saying the censorship would happen here, but rather in other countries wanting to view the Cove.