Hi,

in QMS

can we consider contractor penalties as corrective actions if non-conformance (violation) was found?


Intesar

Hi,

in QMS

can we consider contractor penalties as corrective actions if non-conformance (violation) was found?


IntesarIf they were included in the terms and conditions of your contract....

Hi,

in QMS

can we consider contractor penalties as corrective actions if non-conformance (violation) was found?


Intesar

Intesar,
How would a penalty serve as a corrective action, how would the penalty prevent the nonconformance from happening in the future?

Phil

If they were included in the terms and conditions of your contract....

yes they are included>> sorry But

can we consider it as preventive action? i think NO.......correct??

It sounds like you are headed down the wrong road! The 8 quality management principles, which ISO 9001 is supposed to be based on, includes 'Mutually Beneficial Supplier Relationships'.

Are you sure that the non-conformances are purely the supplier's fault and your own organization isn't in some way to 'blame' for the reason? As a supplier quality manager for many years, I learned very early on that the supplier is rarely to blame and therefore the financial hit was unjustified..........

I doubt that you could claim anything good about a QMS based on a financial disincentive/penalty like you describe.

Intesar,
How would a penalty serve as a corrective action, how would the penalty prevent the nonconformance from happening in the future?

Phil

i think will not - i do not know -:D

but losing money will make the contractor more vigilant

intesar

It sounds like you are headed down the wrong road! The 8 quality management principles, which ISO 9001 is supposed to be based on, includes 'Mutually Beneficial Supplier Relationships'.

Are you sure that the non-conformances are purely the supplier's fault and your own organization isn't in some way to 'blame' for the reason? As a supplier quality manager for many years, I learned very early on that the supplier is rarely to blame and therefore the financial hit was unjustified..........

I doubt that you could claim anything good about a QMS based on a financial disincentive/penalty like you describe.

thanks for reply

When I deal with the contractor Usually penalties are my last choice. I strongly believe in building good relation with them but some times I have no choice and it works

Intesar

i think will not - i do not know -:D

but losing money will make the contractor more vigilant

intesar

Just a suggestion: Make sure and perform a Good and in-depth Root Cause Analysis, before you blame a Supplier for something that may or may not be their fault.

I have to agree with Andy, I have been involved as a Supplier Quality Engineer for 13 years. I first always look internal to see if there was there some way that we could have caused the quality issues (poor documentation, poor material handling, etc).
If it was determined to be a supplier issue I would work with the supplier, have them develop a corrective action that would eliminate the issue from happening again. At times I have challenged the CA since it did not appear that it was robust enough to eliminate the issue.

Often times I would invite the supplier into our facility to be able to see how the part(s) that they produce are used it our assemblies.

It sounds like you are battling an internal issue, is there someone in your management that wants to impose penalties?

Phil

I have to agree with Andy, I have been involved as a Supplier Quality Engineer for 13 years. I first always look internal to see if there was there some way that we could have caused the quality issues (poor documentation, poor material handling, etc).
If it was determined to be a supplier issue I would work with the supplier, have them develop a corrective action that would eliminate the issue from happening again. At times I have challenged the CA since it did not appear that it was robust enough to eliminate the issue.

Often times I would invite the supplier into our facility to be able to see how the part(s) that they produce are used it our assemblies.

It sounds like you are battling an internal issue, is there someone in your management that wants to impose penalties?

Phil



thanks Phil

I am doing same what you have said, i set with them and we agree in some action to be taken..


No No…. my management actually force me to stay with them but really some times I feel frustrated

Intesar:

Any apparent change by the supplier may be another example of the 'Hawthorn Effect' - a temporary improvement because they're reacting to a recent issue. For you to be successful, you are obliged to ensure that anything the supplier does is a sustainable correction/improvement which stops the problem from happening again. The financial 'hit' will only induce the 'Hawthorn Effect'........