iso 9001 2008 in (0.3) Relationship with ISO 9004
ISO 9004 is under revision. The revised edition of ISO 9004 will provide guidance to management for achieving sustained success for any organization in a complex, demanding and ever changing, environment.

How orgnization demonstrate "sustain success " ? in line with ISO 9001 2008 if orgnization wish to___ want your views?:)
:thanks:

iso 9001 2008 in (0.3) Relationship with ISO 9004
ISO 9004 is under revision. The revised edition of ISO 9004 will provide guidance to management for achieving sustained success for any organization in a complex, demanding and ever changing, environment.

How orgnization demonstrate "sustain success " ? in line with ISO 9001 2008 if orgnization wish to___ want your views?:)
:thanks:

I am a little confused on what you are specifically asking for, but as I personally interpret what you are asking about is how to achieved sustained success.

In my opinion, if you develop your Management System under the recommendations in ISO9004:2007 (working draft)[Version 2000is current] you would meet and/or exceed ISO9001:2008. But, you can not receive Certification/Registration to ISO9004:2007 [Version 2000 is current] only ISO9001:200x.

ISO9004:2007 [Version 2000 is current] (working draft) is a very good standard and would most likely benefit your organization.

I would think that sustaining success would be based on how well you are meeting your objectives, and how you change your objectives, as your QMS matures. However, in order to sustain success, you first have to get to success. To me, that implies your QMS must first move from compliance-based to improvement-based.

<snip>ISO9004:2005 is a very good standard and would most likely benefit your organization.

Coury, I could not find this one on the ISO site. Do you mean ISO 9004:2000?

Stijloor.

Coury, I could not find this one on the ISO site. Do you mean ISO 9004:2000?

Stijloor.

I have a copy of the 2007 Version (Working Draft) but yes the 2000 version I believe is the current one.

My mistake. I just think to far ahead.

I have a copy of the 2007 Version (Working Draft) but yes the 2000 version I believe is the current one.

My mistake. I just think to far ahead.

The 2000 version is still 'current' in that it's the officially published version, but it won't be much/any help in relation to 'sustained success'. I don't think the term even appears in it.

There's a huge and utterly radical difference in approach between the draft new version (2007) and the 2000 version. Huge. They are virtually completely different documents.

The 2000 version pretty much just aligns itself with 2001 and offers suggestions to go beyond its requirements. The new (draft) took off in a totally different direction (and a very good one IMO). I'd advise getting hold of the draft, and not the released 2000 version.

iso 9001 2008 in (0.3) Relationship with ISO 9004
ISO 9004 is under revision. The revised edition of ISO 9004 will provide guidance to management for achieving sustained success for any organization in a complex, demanding and ever changing, environment.

How orgnization demonstrate "sustain success " ? in line with ISO 9001 2008 if orgnization wish to___ want your views?:)
:thanks:

I'm not sure what you are after.

Since this is in section 0.3, it is not a requirement. There are no "shalls" attached to it. If you are thinking that you need to do this to comply with ISO 9001:2008, you don't need to.

The latest draft of ISO 9004:2009 is the DIS. Dated from 2008.

i know it is not requirement but any organization want to demo, then how? can we measure ?

By determining methods to measure what you are after. Application of Key Performance Indicators.

Sustaining success usually means continue making a profit. Otherwise nothing else will be sustained except maybe the building.

Sustaining success usually means continue making a profit. Otherwise nothing else will be sustained except maybe the building.

Bingo Ralph! :applause: :applause:

Stijloor.

Sustaining success usually means continue making a profit. Otherwise nothing else will be sustained except maybe the building.While financial profit is a very important part of business success, it is not the only aspect. Look for example, at Arthur Andersen. A multi-billion dollar organization, with decades of very profitable operation. A high profile ethical issue brought the whole organization down. In a very short time.
Just to show that, indeed, an organization should manage all of it's risks, not only financial exposure.

ISO (QMS) not only say about financial profit, what I understand long lasting achievement of organizational objectivies, but Q. is how organization demo? How it is measured? How it is different with continual improvement? Or it is same ? Why it is come in ISO 2004:2009? In time dimension involved ?

Yes, in my opinion violations of ethics and corruptness will lead to loss of profit and financial demise. It will finally catch up with them. But, I do not know of any company that is in business to lose money. Good companies do everything that is required ethically and regulatory, to satisfy customer requirements in order to continue to make a profit. Unfortunately many good companies are now facing huge economic losses of business and profit which is beyond their control, and will not sustain success in continued operations, even though they sustained success in compliance of all the requirements.

While financial profit is a very important part of business success, it is not the only aspect. Look for example, at Arthur Andersen. A multi-billion dollar organization, with decades of very profitable operation. A high profile ethical issue brought the whole organization down. In a very short time.
Just to show that, indeed, an organization should manage all of it's risks, not only financial exposure.

Indeed, yes.