I working on a project to implement an integrated Quality- and Environment Management System. The integrated QMS&EMS must:
1.Describe & be performed according to the way EMS&QMS involved employees work, the organisation practices.
2.Fulfill the requirements of ISO 9001 & ISO 14001 (and other related laws/regulations)

The steps I plan to do are, and currently working on:
1.Identify the Requirements of ISO 9001 & ISO 14001->A joint requirements list of both norms
2.Identify policy, targets, organisational structure, processes and performing processinterviews->A top down organisation structure (policy to process) and Flowcharts of the processes performed (procedures)
3.Identify missing elements of ISO requirements and policy, targets, organisational structure and processes

The problem I encounter is I dont know how to perform step 2, how the integrated QMS&EMS should look like for the organisation practices fullfillment. Therefore I dont know how to check the requirements of ISO 9001 & 14001 on an integrated QMS&EMS that is not in place.

Who can help me, and/or has experience, with this problem?

On the enviromental side - do you have a seperate EMS in place at the moment?

If not, the implementation may be wider than you may think - a 14001 EMS includes aspects / impacts registers which have to be developed, registers of legislation etc etc. (You probably already know this, sorry if I'm going off track)

Anyway - would it not be easier to do a pre-assessment for 14001 first to develop these controls etc & then integrate the 2 systems?

Hi Achorste,
I prefer to develop them at the same time.

There is a integrated Environmental and Quality Management System present. However it has not been updated since the last few years. The Quality Manager, who has outsourced this project to me, has told me the environmental & quality norms, laws etc. that has to be included. So that is not a problem.

The problem is how to fit two management systems to be developed against way of working and the ISO9001 and 14001 norms.

Hi Achorste,
I prefer to develop them at the same time.

There is a integrated Environmental and Quality Management System present. However it has not been updated since the last few years. The Quality Manager, who has outsourced this project to me, has told me the environmental & quality norms, laws etc. that has to be included. So that is not a problem.

The problem is how to fit two management systems to be developed against way of working and the ISO9001 and 14001 norms.

Goedemorgen Etienne,

It may be helpful to explore some threads and posts about this topic here in The Cove Forums. I did an advanced search for you on: "14001 and 9001 Integration (http://www.google.com/custom?domains=Elsmar.com&q=14001+and+9001+integration&sa=Search&sitesearch=Elsmar.com&client=pub-1385417534940691&forid=1&channel=6124086287&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A000099%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A0000FF%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A350%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Felsmar.com%2Fpng%2Fheader-G-search.png%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2FElsmar.com%2FForums%2F%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en)." You have to do some digging, but I am sure that you will find some posts that will pertain to your challenge.

Veel succes toegewenst.

Stijloor.

If you go to the back of the ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 standards there are usually tables that show how each of the clauses align across each standard.

What I have done in our manuals where I have progressively built in more OHSMS and EMS into the QMS manual - is to go to each section of the 2 standards and then consider what's missing from the existing manual of the things that we actually do - and that leads to well - what else should or can we do to cover that section - I use subheadings to cover the individual EMS, OHSMS & QMS aspects under each major heading - eg previously our quality manual was silent on what we call the 14 key standards of our OHSMS system and also how we covered Legionella (Legionnaire's disease) management of our air conditioning systems - both of these now feature in our now retitled Operations Manual

It seems to be a workable approach which has led to continous improvement of our manual - at the steel plant where I am the Quality Systems Manager many of the operating departments are moving to this approach for their own department Operations Manuals to cover Quality, Environment, Safety & High Risk Facility audits

hope this helps
KerrieAnne aka machrk

My approach to an integrated system is to develop the QMS first, as this provides the framework of the system and reflects how the organisation runs. I then ensure that the procedures we have address elements for both systems (e.g. management review needs more than just what is in 9001 5.6 in order to address environmental issues).

I then add the other elements not in 9001 but required for 14001 such as an environmental review, aspects and impacts, emergency procedures, etc.

I have 1 manual which addresses both standards (typically about about 12 pages) and 1 set of procedures (on average about 15) to define the control of the processes and activities required to run the business and satisfy the standards.

Things like document control, records and internal audits are of course common across the 2 standards so they are treated as such. It does mean that internal auditors need a bit more training and competence than if there was just 1 standard but that is usually quite achievable given a bit of time and practice.

My approach to an integrated system is to develop the QMS first, as this provides the framework of the system and reflects how the organisation runs. I then ensure that the procedures we have address elements for both systems (e.g. management review needs more than just what is in 9001 5.6 in order to address environmental issues).

I then add the other elements not in 9001 but required for 14001 such as an environmental review, aspects and impacts, emergency procedures, etc.
Yup, that's how I've done it too. The framework needs to be in place first, and as you say, the QMS provides that. One can't start doing the EMS sutff without having the framework in existing.

Good succinct outline.