Hello experts

We are a big size organization. We are heading for ISO 9001 but just now the management showed some interest to go for TL 9000.

I need your help to answer these questions, please:

1- Can we apply TL 9000 to one function (in our case it is operation- 5000 employees)?
2- How would this affect our plan towards the ISO9001?
3- Are we going to work on two different projects ( ISO 9001 & TL 9000) at the same time? or can they be one project with two phases?
4- How much requirements does TL9000 have compared to ISO 9001? I mean if it takes 6-9 months to implement ISO 9001, how much longer would it take for the TL9000 to be implemented and then certified?
5- Finally, how about the cost? ISO 9001 Vs. TL 9000?

Thanks in advance, If you can answer any of these questions, please do so.....

Can anyone help this user?

Hi I just posted what is written below( in green ), to another question on the site, it seemed relavant so I pasted it here. My particular site did not certify for TL but our corporate site did and they were already ISO9001 certified and it still took them over a year to get TL in place. This was a few years ago though and there is probably far more options for help in getting started now than there was back then. Depending on the needs of your organization, you could certify in two phases, get ISO9001 first then work toward TL. But Being that TL is built off of 9001 if you get certified in TL, you are already compliant with 9001.
Well, I am certainly no expert on TL9000, however my company did look into becoming certified for TL and what I can tell you is that TL is, as you may know, based on the 9001 standard. One thing that TL does, is it raises the bar of tracabilty and accountability of product for suppliers, vendors and the main product producer. TL is far more involved when it comes to things such as customer due dates for orders and TL is very specific in what qualifies as a late order. As an example if your customer calls you and says they want to push the date out for and order, you can change the due date because it was customer driven. But, if you encouter a problem and call the customer and tell them you cannot meet the original due date, even if they allow you push the date out, you technically must go by the original due date because the reason behind the change was not customer driven. TL is very much about customer service and meeting the customers needs and expectations.
There is also a rating system that compares your company to similar comanies in your industry, this is done anonymously by number and there is a website where you can see where your company stands.

There are also some excellent books through the QUEST forum through ASQ:)

TL is far more involved when it comes to things such as customer due dates for orders and TL is very specific in what qualifies as a late order. As an example if your customer calls you and says they want to push the date out for an order, you can change the due date because it was customer driven. But, if you encouter a problem and call the customer and tell them you cannot meet the original due date, even if they allow you push the date out, you technically must go by the original due date because the reason behind the change was not customer driven. TL is very much about customer service and meeting the customers needs and expectations.


I really don't see any difference here (between TL and 9001). If you as a company change a due date you agreed with me as a customer (ie, I didn't change it - YOU did) I wouldn't see that as meeting the terms of our agreed contract. Or are you saying that the actual Standard has specifics for this and for 'customer service' and for 'customer needs and expectations'? Because based on what you say here, I cannot see any difference.

Hi Jane,
It has been a while since I dealt with TL but as I recall if you originally agreed to a due date with the customer and the customer changes the date due to issues from their end, that's fine. But if the the date cannot be met because of issues on the provider end. Then the provider is supposed to still consider the original agreed date as the actual date, regardless if the customer allows it or not, making the shipment "late". I think this is designed to force the provider to look at the factors that created the late shipment in an effort to improve processes and keep them from repeating. I argued this point with the gentleman who ran the class I attended, stating that no company would voluntarily say they were late if they can get away with it. To which he finally agreed. But there is no way around it if the customer refuses to move the date and tells you the shipment will be marked as late by them. Because TL is so customer focused that original date you agreed to is the sticking point. I admittedly see loop holes in this idea, but that is how it was told to my class.

Hello experts

We are a big size organization. We are heading for ISO 9001 but just now the management showed some interest to go for TL 9000.

I need your help to answer these questions, please:

1- Can we apply TL 9000 to one function (in our case it is operation- 5000 employees)?
2- How would this affect our plan towards the ISO9001?
3- Are we going to work on two different projects ( ISO 9001 & TL 9000) at the same time? or can they be one project with two phases?
4- How much requirements does TL9000 have compared to ISO 9001? I mean if it takes 6-9 months to implement ISO 9001, how much longer would it take for the TL9000 to be implemented and then certified?
5- Finally, how about the cost? ISO 9001 Vs. TL 9000?

Thanks in advance, If you can answer any of these questions, please do so.....

Reduce the two standards to list of processes and controls. Determine where in your organization the processes and controls will do the most good for your customers, employees and shareholders.

You may end up with three scope statements of decreasing narrowness:


Scope of your process-based management system to improve the business
Scope of your system that is ISO 9001 certified
Scope of your system that is TL9000 certified


You may for example opt for improving your service:( as a telephone company by using the processes and controls specified by TL9000.

You may choose to merge scopes 1 and 2 from day one or later.

Initially you will probably keep the scope of your system that you certify as conforming to TL9000 as narrow as possible to maximize the bang for your buck. As the TL9000 conforming part of your system proves itself you can later grow its scope to include other goods/services/locations.

Allow about 3 times the time and cost for developing your system so it conforms to TL9000 versus a process-based management system that conforms to ISO 9001.

It should be seen as an investment not a cost.:)

Please send me a private message if you want me to determine the budget for this investment with you.

Hi I just posted what is written below( in green ), to another question on the site, it seemed relavant so I pasted it here. My particular site did not certify for TL but our corporate site did

One thing that TL does, is it raises the bar of tracabilty and accountability of product for suppliers, vendors and the main product producer. There is also a rating system that compares your company to similar comanies in your industry, this is done anonymously by number and there is a website where you can see where your company stands.

It is me again :cool: did you know that?

So it is good that we can stick with one site since we have multiple sites.

I think the main reason that make the management interested in TL9000 is to raise the bar for its suppliers/Vendors. I got to know more about the QuEST Forum, for a big organization to be a memebr, there is a membership fees ($12,000). This allows members to access data supplied anonymously by all TL9000 certified members so we can compare our performance with others and therefore put pressure on our supplier to improve the service, this is what I understand as of now.

Thanks for your reply Matt.

Reduce the two standards to list of processes and controls. Determine where in your organization the processes and controls will do the most good for your customers, employees and shareholders.

You may end up with three scope statements of decreasing narrowness:


Scope of your process-based management system to improve the business
Scope of your system that is ISO 9001 certified
Scope of your system that is TL9000 certified

You may for example opt for improving your service:( as a telephone company by using the processes and controls specified by TL9000.

You may choose to merge scopes 1 and 2 from day one or later.

Initially you will probably keep the scope of your system that you certify as conforming to TL9000 as narrow as possible to maximize the bang for your buck. As the TL9000 conforming part of your system proves itself you can later grow its scope to include other goods/services/locations.

Allow about 3 times the time and cost for developing your system so it conforms to TL9000 versus a process-based management system that conforms to ISO 9001.

It should be seen as an investment not a cost.:)

Please send me a private message if you want me to determine the budget for this investment with you.

Some unmeasured estemates here say it would take our organization 2 to 3 years to ISO 9001. So this time (2-3years) mutiplied by 3 (as you said for TL9000) = 6-9 years:bonk:



I said no, it would take about 9 months (for the ISO 9001) if there is a good plan. I say that based on my basic knowledge and based on a lot of quotes either in the cove or any other resources, that any organization that aim to the ISO 9001 and starting from scratch, it would take in the worst case senario 18 months (for large size org.) Is this true? So since we already did some work on this project, I say 6 to 9 months should be enough (may be less).

Thanks John for the detailed plan, I would like to send you a private message about some of the issues with defining the key core and support process. I am grateful for you offering your help, I hope we can outsource this process analysis to your company and get to work togather:agree:

CarolXCan anyone help this user?

:thanks:



JaneB

:thanks:

Hello experts

We are a big size organization. We are heading for ISO 9001 but just now the management showed some interest to go for TL 9000.

I need your help to answer these questions, please:

1- Can we apply TL 9000 to one function (in our case it is operation- 5000 employees)?
2- How would this affect our plan towards the ISO9001?
3- Are we going to work on two different projects ( ISO 9001 & TL 9000) at the same time? or can they be one project with two phases?
4- How much requirements does TL9000 have compared to ISO 9001? I mean if it takes 6-9 months to implement ISO 9001, how much longer would it take for the TL9000 to be implemented and then certified?
5- Finally, how about the cost? ISO 9001 Vs. TL 9000?

Thanks in advance, If you can answer any of these questions, please do so.....

Our company also happens to be in the "telecom business". We are really small, so certification to either of these two standards is not in our plans (at least not until any of our big customers asks for certification). For now we are just trying to establish some version of QMS/BMS using these two standards as a "framework".

Nevertheless, we were also pondering the same general question (to go straight for TL or to go for ISO first) a couple of months ago, and our conclusion was: if we had to get TL-certified we would do it in two phases (i.e. we would get ISO-certified first).



This conclusion was based on the following:

Some third-party professional advices we've got. When we were "scouting the certification territory" by talking to a couple of TL consultants, we were told that the two-phase route to TL is much better. The consultants did not give us too many details (because we didn't ask too much at that point :)), but the general rationale was quite simple and convincing: since TL is just ISO plus some additional requirements, essentially there is nothing to lose when you "get TL" in two steps; quite the contrary, you will get some value quicker by "getting ISO" as a first step.


Our own assessment of the standards. When you have to start from scratch, ISO 9001 appears to be quite intimidating by itself. And, although the number of requirements added by TL does not look very large, these requirements appear to make the overall "framework" substantially tougher.
On top of that, my personal opinion is that the "quality" of TL 9000 requirements themselves (in terms of clarity, consistency, ambiguity, etc.) is somewhat lower than the one of ISO 9001. So just the additional learning curve imposed by TL 9000 appears to be a substantial overhead.
NB: By the way, as far as I know the last version of TL 9000 is based on ISO 9001:2000 and have not been revised in response to ISO 9001:2008 yet. I don't know what are QUEST Forum's current plans about this, but if they decide to revise TL 9000 - if only to improve the language and structure - I would definitely prefer to use the newer version later. ;).)
Perhaps, here is another good reason to go for TL in two steps: even if you decide to go for "just ISO" first, I think you can't really avoid addressing some of the TL's requirements anyway (e.g. ESD-related stuff), but you would not have to address them to a "certifiable level" right off the bat...

I'm not sure my unprofessional feedback will be of much help, but I hope it would not hurt.


Best regards,
Yarik.

I'm not sure my unprofessional feedback will be of much help, but I hope it would not hurt.


Best regards,
Yarik.


Thanks for taking the time, of course this will help me and would those people who are just like me!

Now that I have spent some time reading here in the Cove and getting feedback from the experts and also reading around the internet, I agree that two phases plan is the way to go. First ISO 9000 then TL9000 so not to lose focus.

Best regards,

Friends,

Some excellent information being exchanged about ISO 9001 and TL9000. Is there a good web site location where TL9000 is provided at no cost? If so, I would appreciate having that web location. Our area is contemplating the installation of a telecommunications broadband system. I would like to recommend that the supplier’s of the broadband system be either registered to ISO 9001 or TL9000.

I would appreciate having an viable correspondence, including manuals/other, about TL9000 that you would be willing to share or reference within a good web location.

Thank you much!!!

Is there a good web site location where TL9000 is provided at no cost? If so, I would appreciate having that web location.


Just like ISO specs, TL 9000 specs are a copyrighted material. I don't know any Web sites where you could legally get those specs for free.

You can obtain information on TL 9000 at tl9000.org which is the official TL web site and is run by QuEST Forum. There is some good overview material there including an overview brochure.



Also this is where you can purchase a copy of TL 9000 and the measurements handbooks. Note: TL 9000 R5 has just been released and is the version of TL that ties to ISO 9001:2008.

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