Hi,

Ive just been promoted into a CI role within my current workplace. My recent education has been 'lean' based and i believe in it 100%.

The problem is, our company is constantly focused on one thing. PRODUCTIVITY :whip:.

They ve recently put me has the champion to implement 5s but how can i implement it when there is little or no possibility to train and educate the workforce, no time to take the guys off the shop to implement ideas and give them ownership of the cells.

Our current 5s receipe consists of "someone importants coming in two hours, tidy up the shop."

So my question is, How can i get it across to management the importance of implementing 5s correctly and take the hit on productivity, to gain the full benefits when the managers themselves are sceptical.

I dont want to get involved in anything that i know is going to fail. They have tried in the past and when i got to the factory towards the end of last year the factory was littered with empty 5s boards.

Cheers
8balluk

Your story is familiar.

I just finished a graduate course titled Leading Change, and it listed "Increase Urgency" as its first step. Obviously, unless the orders are habitually running late (rework is a different problem, but cycle time has been shown to improve with 5S) when management is fixated on productivity, the heartstring to be tugged is Return on Investment.

Here is a link to a blog on 5S (http://www.labelprinter.com/lean-blog/). It includes reference to free Get Started booklets, and even references a thread on The Elsmar Cove! :D

We have Quality Cost calculators that you can find with a search in the Post Attachments (green button in the header) page.

Hi - i come across the same issue repeatedly and to me it's a fundamental mis-understanding of what 5s delivers for you by your senior team.

I think a lot of management teams see 5s as a painting and cleaning exercise and don't realise that it's a methodology for running a plant. It's about making belts and chains visible so that condition can be continually checked, it's about reducing damage to changeparts, it's about the capability to effectively maintain machines because you can see when they've got a problem.

The only issue is that you need their buy in to audit and review the 5s programme to show it's valued and alive. In a recent survey of UK manufacturers 72% said they'd implemented 5s. Yet i've visited only 1 plant in the last 5 years that can honestly say they're getting the benefits above.

Couple of thoughts:
1. For me i would do a cleaning exercise that achieves what your managers want, and focus energy on improving productivity more directly whilst making the plant cleaner. SMED might be an interesting way to do this if planned downtime is your greatest loss. But you say "productivity" not "OEE" so i'm guessing that some sort of cycle time/operator work flow analysis may add more value.

2. If you do point 1 please please please don't call it 5s. I meet hundreds of operators who "do 5s" and then describe it as "painting and ****". That's not 5s. That's doing painting and **** and now you can't launch a proper 5s programme without severe PR work!

5S = Productivity

meaning, it is the most basic form of productivity program, it start with that.

not complicated, presice, simple. you cannot launch a bigtime productivity without going into 5S.... right guys? :)

Management has to be ready to take this on or it will fail. I am attaching an article i wrote about 5S that may be helpful. Make them understand that this is more than cleanup - 5S is necessary to create flow.

Roger

Is this a new position for the company or are you replacing someone?

What is the criteria for the position according to the company?

Maybe 5S is "not" part of their vision of a CI person. Companies have different views of what this position is supposed to be. Some regard it as a way to have a mfg eng without the degree and pay. Others just want an experienced worker who has increased production where ever they have worked and they want that thought process applied to all areas.

Your boss should be able to give you insights as to what his vision is for you in that position. Then you formulate a plan from there and present it to him (if they don't have one in mind)

My position was newly created 2 years ago. They wanted someone from outside the company to bring in "new eyes" and experience in this area. I also am responsible for the safety program too.

They allowed a team to form and I trained them in 5S and we applied these machine by machine. But, the company allowed for this. It's their baby and they need to have a vision or one put in front of them that they would understand.

If it's all production based, find a way to incorporate a cost reduction using a plant employees idea. That would be an ultimate win-win situation and cause the company to start working with you on your program more.


:2cents:

5S is not only housekeeping but it is productivity related and cost saving. Dont you agree the clean environment provide better quality? The better arrangement and proper tool placement is save time (save time is increase productivity).

5S is not only housekeeping but it is productivity related and cost saving. Dont you agree the clean environment provide better quality? The better arrangement and proper tool placement is save time (save time is increase productivity).

Can you show us some numbers? $$ Evidence?

Stijloor.

I can give an example of 5S increasing productivity....

Our operators work on 3 levels on their production machine. We have a catwalk, floor level, and a pit. They were leaving their tools all over the place and having to hunt them down. This took about 5 minutes each occurance and 3 times per shift.

We installed tool boards on the machines and saved this time spent searching for tools. This came to a yearly savings per machine of $1977. We have 8 machines where this was done for a total annual savings of $15,816.:agree1:

That was a great example, Palmer. Simple, with easy math and a clear outcome.

I can give an example of 5S increasing productivity....

Our operators work on 3 levels on their production machine. We have a catwalk, floor level, and a pit. They were leaving their tools all over the place and having to hunt them down. This took about 5 minutes each occurance and 3 times per shift.

We installed tool boards on the machines and saved this time spent searching for tools. This came to a yearly savings per machine of $1977. We have 8 machines where this was done for a total annual savings of $15,816.:agree1:

This assumes that during the five minutes of tool-searching that no production was happening. Is this the case? How was the dollar figure arrived at?

If they are searching for a tool, the machine is down. The only time they need to use tools is because the machine needed to be stopped to replace or fix the machine.

That is a good point to remember tho....:tg:

If they are searching for a tool, the machine is down. The only time they need to use tools is because the machine needed to be stopped to replace or fix the machine.

That is a good point to remember tho....:tg:

You didn't answer the other part of the question--how did you arrive at the dollar amount?

Sorry,:o

We have an operating cost based on each machine. This is an hourly rate that the bean counters have applied to the machines in every plant.

If 2 plants have the same machine, the hourly rate is not the same due to number of employees, wages, overhead, etc....

They track downtime on the machines and place a dollar value on the loss of production time. But they list this as lost profit based on what the company would have made if the machine had been running.

I used to put those numbers together at other companies that have worked for but my current employer has some corporate group figure these numbers. They are NOT an engineering group. I get the run around when I pry into how this is configured.

I guess if they are happy with their figures then I am too....:lol:

BTW Jim,

What is the deal with your picture? I have been wondering since you changed it....:confused:

Hi

This is a very common situation you find yourself in and i have been there many times also.

I'm afraid you have a difficult task on your hands and the only way to get on top of this is a lot of hard work

My approach which has worked for me about 10 years ago when i was a lean beginner was to first convince the workforce on the shopfloor. They were frustrated about their lack of influence and i asked them what they wanted to change.

I took their ideas and put together a plan and created a simulation model which showed the current and future scenarios i had developed with the workers.

We presented this to senior management and managed to get some money to imrove the cell area.

The following year i was summons to the directors office and he showed me a graph of productivity over the year period about 1.2M pounds was saved on the cell.

We got a chairmans award for our efforts and a trip on the company jet as a reward

Hope this is useful

James

Hi

This is a very common situation you find yourself in and i have been there many times also.

I'm afraid you have a difficult task on your hands and the only way to get on top of this is a lot of hard work

My approach which has worked for me about 10 years ago when i was a lean beginner was to first convince the workforce on the shopfloor. They were frustrated about their lack of influence and i asked them what they wanted to change.

I took their ideas and put together a plan and created a simulation model which showed the current and future scenarios i had developed with the workers.

We presented this to senior management and managed to get some money to imrove the cell area.

The following year i was summons to the directors office and he showed me a graph of productivity over the year period about 1.2M pounds was saved on the cell.

We got a chairmans award for our efforts and a trip on the company jet as a reward

Hope this is useful

James

James,

What post in this thread are you replying to? You may want to quote that post. ;)

Stijloor.

Our current 5s receipe consists of "someone importants coming in two hours, tidy up the shop."

So my question is, How can i get it across to management the importance of implementing 5s correctly and take the hit on productivity, to gain the full benefits when the managers themselves are sceptical.
8balluk

There is a natural curve with 5S. At first, it takes a lot of investment to get the work place straightened out. You should see a big transformation. Items are available/accessible, the env is brighter and safer. You should also see the amount of time spent on 5S shrink. 2 hours is a lot of time. I am curious where you are on the curve. Maybe your allocating too much time to 5S? If not, them maybe you are not tackling the source of the waste. Are you addressing the sources of debris (dust, oil leaks, etc)?

Are your measureable objectives improving parallel to your 5S activity? Are you operating a suggestion system? Doing Kaizen Blitzes?

Consider focusing your team's activity (5S, suggestions, blitzes) on waste removal that directly impacts your measureables. Remember 5S is a tool for waste reduction - not just a cleaning routine.


What business are you in? We can probably give you industry specific examples.

Regards,

Steve

Our consumables storage was a mess. We were ordering items because we couldn't find them then we would find a ton of them later. We performed 5S in this area. We applied a cost savings to this by putting a time spent searching and ordering.

We are doing this in our maitenance area now. We constantly hear " it was in this area but check that area, but if not there, look here". We'll put a time spent looking and ordering when we already have to turn in a cost savings.

These things will perk up the ears of a "productivity only" company and give you a segway to perform 5S where there may not be a cost savings....

Hi,

Let us deal the whole 5s in two phases. The first phase is with 1s & 2s (Sort and Systematic arrangement ) alone. This results in removal of huge amount of unwanted items, frees up space, brings out surprise hidden parts etc. The salvage value of items came from sorting helps to invest in 2nd S. By doing this 2s visibly, any hardcore non-believer of 5s will get involved in to this.

This is from experience.

5S is the foundation for all improvements.