First Party -Internal auditing
Competency in ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc.

2nd part - supplier audits
Again, Competencyin ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc. Are there other requirements? (What would a 3rd party auditor expect as competency of an auditor (lead auditor) to consdider a 2nd party audit report as valid?) I'm a ASQ CQA, and an RABQSA provisional auditor. My manager took a RABQSA endorsed training course by a consultant for lead auditor training (1 week). Now, he feels that makes him the only qualified auditor to lead most audits. Is this true? What does taking this training course really buy him?

Third Party -registrar, etc.
I understand to be employed by a registrar, you have to be an RABQSA certified auditor...they have links on thier site about different levels (auditor, lead auditor, etc) and registration/qualification.
What certification would you need to do consulting or contract auditing (say a company wanted to contract you to do internal or supplier audits for them)? Would ASQ CQA be enough, or would you need some official RABQSA auditor standing?

Not sure where to go for the answers to these questions.

What certification would you need to do consulting or contract auditing (say a company wanted to contract you to do internal or supplier audits for them)? Would ASQ CQA be enough, or would you need some official RABQSA auditor standing?

Not sure where to go for the answers to these questions.

There is no definitive answer for these questions. One could be competent to do consulting and auditing without any certifications, or one might be incompetent with certifications. Each company will define its own criteria.

Being a consultant/contract auditor is like constantly applying applying for a job. You have to sell yourself to get in the door of each client. Once you're there, you need to demonstrate competence in order to stay there or get repeat business. Certainly having a CQA certification will be better than not having one. Probably more is better.

First Party -Internal auditing
Competency in ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc.

2nd part - supplier audits
Again, Competencyin ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc. Are there other requirements? (What would a 3rd party auditor expect as competency of an auditor (lead auditor) to consdider a 2nd party audit report as valid?)

The requirements for auditors are defined by your company as documented in your procedures. A third party auditor would look at training and performance as an indication of competence.

I'm a ASQ CQA, and an RABQSA provisional auditor. My manager took a RABQSA endorsed training course by a consultant for lead auditor training (1 week). Now, he feels that makes him the only qualified auditor to lead most audits. Is this true? What does taking this training course really buy him?

I would say that CQA would certainly indicate that you understand audit fundamentals which should qualify you to conduct 2nd party audits. However, your procedures will be the deciding factor. If your manager writes the procedure and makes it so he is the only one qualified, then, he is the "man". One might suggest that he is feeling overly important!:notme: I would suggest that if a manager has time to audit, he/she is probably not managing effectively!;)

Third Party -registrar, etc.
I understand to be employed by a registrar, you have to be an RABQSA certified auditor...they have links on thier site about different levels (auditor, lead auditor, etc) and registration/qualification.
What certification would you need to do consulting or contract auditing (say a company wanted to contract you to do internal or supplier audits for them)? Would ASQ CQA be enough, or would you need some official RABQSA auditor standing?

Some companies are hung up on titles and certifications. Unfortunately, there is not a good understanding of each. My opinion is that CQA with experience is as valuable as RABQSA:2cents:. RABQSA with experience may trump CQA depending on the level of experience. There isn't a magic pill and unless you are funded by your company, RABQSA can be cost prohibitive.:(

Not quite sure of the direction of your questions but If I understand your "tone" you may be looking for other options because of being held back by your manager. The fact that you have ASQ CQA speaks to your commitment beyond the workplace. If your other education and training shows that same commitment I would make sure you have a well prepared resume and send it out.:agree1:

Not sure where to go for the answers to these questions.

Hopefully, my comments are helpful:D

Thanks for your responses.

I guess the overall question is, are there guidelines or rules for what qualificaitons/certifications you have to have to audit? The only ones I can find is that to be employed by a registrar to audit, you have to have RABQSA certified.

Examples cited above are: supplier audits, contract auditing (for internal audit or supplier audit for another company). What about giving training on auditing (internal, or contract)?

I'd like to know the rules so that I don't get into a situation where someone says I'm not qualified.

First Party -Internal auditing
Competency in ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc.

2nd part - supplier audits
Again, Competencyin ISO 9001..up to company....can include certifications, training, experience, etc. Are there other requirements? (What would a 3rd party auditor expect as competency of an auditor (lead auditor) to consdider a 2nd party audit report as valid?) I'm a ASQ CQA, and an RABQSA provisional auditor. My manager took a RABQSA endorsed training course by a consultant for lead auditor training (1 week). Now, he feels that makes him the only qualified auditor to lead most audits. Is this true? What does taking this training course really buy him?

Third Party -registrar, etc.
I understand to be employed by a registrar, you have to be an RABQSA certified auditor...they have links on thier site about different levels (auditor, lead auditor, etc) and registration/qualification.
What certification would you need to do consulting or contract auditing (say a company wanted to contract you to do internal or supplier audits for them)? Would ASQ CQA be enough, or would you need some official RABQSA auditor standing?

Not sure where to go for the answers to these questions.

Audits are valid when the auditor is trained and qualified to conduct audits. Your audit won't be recognized by a registrar for certification purposes, but you can certainly conduct 3rd party audits with or without your own certification. I've been ASQ certified (CQA) since 1998, and RAB/QSA ISO 13485 Lead Auditor since 2004. It's definitely very helpful in marketing yourself, but I don't think it's by any means a deal breaker for many clients. If you can demonstrate on your CV + consultations that you're capable of auditing, you'll find that the rest of their decision making process is based on your style. They want a value for their money... of course. They don't want to hire you to ultimately give them a list of nonconformities and walk away. Some actually do, but I think they're rare. In most cases, they'll want you to audit and consult if it's an internal audit. If it's a supplier audit, it's an entirely different ballgame. They don't want any surprises, they don't want their supplier to be disqualified, and they don't want to incur the cost of managing a corrective action plan. At the same token, they understand they need the quality audit in order to assure a quality product. If it's a qualification audit, I've often encountered the same type of responses, except they're not so tied to them - they're not fully vested yet.

Auditing to requirements, understanding how to follow the paper trail, becoming an effective interviewer, and making findings can be learned by anyone. It's balancing all of that with the severity of issues, the type of organization and its business needs, and understanding what it really wants out of an audit that will have them calling you back for re-audits and other projects in the future.

Business politics need to be balanced into the equation. It's a fine line. You can't "go too easy" - when things fall apart later or when they're dealing with a registrar audit, they'll remember that you should have caught these things... on the other hand, you can't come down with an iron fist, because they'll hate working with you, and probably never really hear a word you say. They'll resent you for adding all the burden to their system, and probably won't call you again.

So to answer your question, to be qualified to audit, you need the training, knowledge and experience, as well as an understanding of business - even better to understand the specific business you're auditing. Certifications are extra icing on the cake.

I'm working as a call centre manager in a bank in which the call center agents are empowered to do maintenance activity, such as (temporary increasing credit card limits , reversing charges less than a certain amount , replacing lost and damaged cards ..etc)

I found it necessary to create an "internal auditor" position to monitor the above mentioned activities , report violation of implemented parameters of these activities and to have more control

I would appreciate if anyone can help me in creating a job description for that post or have a ready JD

Also I will be glad if some one can give me advise on how "internal auditors" work in call centers

Thanx, Hawa

I'm working as a call centre manager in a bank in which the call center agents are empowered to do maintenance activity, such as (temporary increasing credit card limits , reversing charges less than a certain amount , replacing lost and damaged cards ..etc)

I found it necessary to create an "internal auditor" position to monitor the above mentioned activities , report violation of implemented parameters of these activities and to have more control

I would appreciate if anyone can help me in creating a job description for that post or have a ready JD

Also I will be glad if some one can give me advise on how "internal auditors" work in call centers

Thanx, Hawa

Attached is an interesting read about call center assessment. As far as a procedure, you could create a top-level audit procedure to the audit standard, then create specific checklists based on the requirements of procedures and any applicable regulatory requirements for banking call centers.

Here's a job description I found for a banking internal auditor.

United Commercial Bank is searching for a highly-motivated senior auditor to join our Internal Audit Department. The senior auditor position offers an excellent opportunity to make a significant contribution to the development of this new department within our fast-growing financial institution. The Senior Auditor ’ s primary role will be the planning and oversight or execution of audits of various processes across the Bank. The ideal candidate will have a background in either internal audit as a senior auditor at a public company or in external audit (preferably with a Big 4 audit firm) reaching a level of experienced senior working on public companies. In addition, strong project management and communication skills are required. CPA, CFA or CIA and experience with Sarbanes-Oxley is required. Knowledge or US GAAP or the Banking Industry would be useful, but not required.

JOB DESCRIPTION:


Contributes to the development of the infrastructure for the Internal Audit Department
Assists in planning audits as well as scheduling and overseeing or performing the audits within established time budgets and deadline dates, ensuring all activities conform to established departmental audit procedures
Develops risk-based audit work programs based on understanding of the processes within a business unit/branch and the risks identified
Performs and/or oversee audit testing according to the work program for branches or business units by evaluating internal controls within the units and identifying non adherence to bank policies and procedures and/or regulatory compliance
Ensures that work performed and reviewed is adequately documented with work papers and written audit programs
Prepares detailed report of audit findings, presenting any issues, control deficiencies, recommendations and a Management Summary for review by the Audit Manager prior to submission to management or the audit committee
Monitors management’s actions to express control deficiencies discovered in the audit process to final resolution and implementation. Reviews the adequacy and appropriateness of the responses and performs follow up with management as necessary
Assists Audit Manager in providing training and guidance and determining projects and work assignments for other Auditors
Reviews and analyzes the effectiveness of the audit program, recommending changes and improvements as appropriate
Incorporate test procedures into planned audits for key controls identified by management in relation to Sarbanes-Oxley Section 404 compliance (financial reporting controls).
Coordinate with the Sarbanes-Oxley Compliance Manager for communicating control deficiencies and monitoring their remediation

SKILLS/REQUIREMENTS


Bachelors, or equivalent, in Accounting or Finance.
CAMS, CRCM, CPA, CFA or CIA a plus
Minimum 2 -3 years recent experience in Audit with a Big 4/Second tier firm or within the internal audit or finance department of a public company.
Knowledge and/or experience with designing or testing of internal controls over financial reporting (Sarbanes Oxley) or the COSO framework is desirable.
Strong interpersonal/communication skills with the ability to interact well with a variety of departments and individuals in a cross-cultural environment (knowledge of Chinese culture helpful, but not required).
A proven track-record of effectively managing projects and prioritizing tasks. Must have the ability to plan, execute and deliver on projects in a timely manner. Ability to effectively multi-task.
Action and results oriented attitude with the ability to overcome obstacles.
Exhibit intellectual curiosity, and strong analytical skills.
The ability to lead or work effectively on a team, a positive outlook and friendly personality.
High level of integrity and ethical values.
Work experience in the financial services industry is a plus

thank you chris. that was informative

The requirements for auditors are found in ISO 19011 - ISO 17021 directs CBs to those requirements. While you don't have to be certified for third perty auditing, the training requirement for a auditor is 40 hrs.

The requirements for auditors are found in ISO 19011 - ISO 17021 directs CBs to those requirements. While you don't have to be certified for third perty auditing, the training requirement for a auditor is 40 hrs.

May I go a step further and suggest you obtain a copy of ISO 19011 and study it. It will help you better understand aspects of all three that you mentioned: 1st party (our own internal audits), 2nd party (supplier audits, what you may do to your suppliers and what your customer may do to you), and 3rd party (certification body audits, both registration and surveillance).

May I go a step further and suggest you obtain a copy of ISO 19011 and study it. It will help you better understand aspects of all three that you mentioned: 1st party (our own internal audits), 2nd party (supplier audits, what you may do to your suppliers and what your customer may do to you), and 3rd party (certification body audits, both registration and surveillance).

It's the "American" version of ISO 19011 that contains this valuable information. Here is a description of this document:

ANSI/ISO/ASQ QE19011S-2004 (http://www.asq.org/quality-press/display-item/index.pl?item=T19011SE), American National Standard, Guidelines for Quality and/or Environmental Management Systems Auditing, U.S. version with supplemental guidance added

Here's an article (http://www.asq.org/pub/qualityprogress/past/0207/qp0207russell.html) that describes the auditing principles.

Stijloor.

here is a copy
:agree1:

I'm working as a call centre manager in a bank in which the call center agents are empowered to do maintenance activity, such as (temporary increasing credit card limits , reversing charges less than a certain amount , replacing lost and damaged cards ..etc)

I found it necessary to create an "internal auditor" position to monitor the above mentioned activities , report violation of implemented parameters of these activities and to have more control

I would appreciate if anyone can help me in creating a job description for that post or have a ready JD

Also I will be glad if some one can give me advise on how "internal auditors" work in call centers

Thanx, Hawa

What kind of auditing are we talking about. I see one thing here, but others have answered in the context of Quality Management Systems Auditing - is that what you're asking about?

My audit related knowledge about that is limited, however my inquiry was on, How can an internal auditor have control on the daily activities in a call center, Thank you Marc

My audit related knowledge about that is limited, however my inquiry was on, How can an internal auditor have control on the daily activities in a call center, Thank you Marc

You had an answer from Chris Ford relating to financial systems which are not the same as quality or environmental systems - therefore the qualifications are different.

What type of management system are you wanting to audit?

I'm not Marc, btw.......:rolleyes:

Sorry Andy, pardon me

It was related to performance management system in the call center. Yet the financial quality management was an informative piece for me because it defines the ROI.