Its good to be back on the forum after a very long break...

In the initial audit report, the external auditor had mentioned in his report about a certain customer complaint (which we had received just 2 days prior to the intial audit) and he had also mentioned that at the time of main audit (which was held 13 days after teh initial audit), the other external auditors should see that this customer complaint is closed. WE HAVE NOT RECEVIED ANY NCs for this. During the main audit, when the customer complaint topic arrived, the HOD had informed the reason and the status of customer complaint (i.e. it is under investigation).

in the main audit report, the auditor has not mentioned anything about the customer complaint.

the complaint whcih we have received from customer from the looks of it, will not be solved.. ie. this customer complaint will not be closed by the customer as the complaint itself is of serious nature. the only good thing is that we have received repeat orders after that which we have fulfilled properly and as per the customer's requirement. but the customer is not filling out the customer survey form because he wants the old complaint to be attended to...

so now, my main query is will the external auditors at the time of auditing in december 2009 (when our next external audit will be there), ask about this customer complaint. my coordinator says they will ask... but when it will be an old matter why would the external auditors ask for it , unless and until my compnay points out to the external auditors..

we will try to close this customer complaint.. but our coordinator is insisting that the external auditors are going to see the related documents and if it is not cleared, then the auditors will issue major NC and chances are that the certificate issued by the agency will be cancelled because of non closing of customer complaint.. so please help - want to know whether the coordinator is right or is just scaring us.

bye
ashwini

Its good to be back on the forum after a very long break...

In the initial audit report, the external auditor had mentioned in his report about a certain customer complaint (which we had received just 2 days prior to the intial audit) and he had also mentioned that at the time of main audit (which was held 13 days after teh initial audit), the other external auditors should see that this customer complaint is closed. WE HAVE NOT RECEVIED ANY NCs for this. During the main audit, when the customer complaint topic arrived, the HOD had informed the reason and the status of customer complaint (i.e. it is under investigation).

in the main audit report, the auditor has not mentioned anything about the customer complaint.

the complaint whcih we have received from customer from the looks of it, will not be solved.. ie. this customer complaint will not be closed by the customer as the complaint itself is of serious nature. the only good thing is that we have received repeat orders after that which we have fulfilled properly and as per the customer's requirement. but the customer is not filling out the customer survey form because he wants the old complaint to be attended to...

so now, my main query is will the external auditors at the time of auditing in december 2009 (when our next external audit will be there), ask about this customer complaint. my coordinator says they will ask... but when it will be an old matter why would the external auditors ask for it , unless and until my compnay points out to the external auditors..

we will try to close this customer complaint.. but our coordinator is insisting that the external auditors are going to see the related documents and if it is not cleared, then the auditors will issue major NC and chances are that the certificate issued by the agency will be cancelled because of non closing of customer complaint.. so please help - want to know whether the coordinator is right or is just scaring us.

bye
ashwini

How do you define "closed"? What's been done? You say that the customer won't fill out a survey form because they want the old complaint "to be attended to." What does this mean? Why haven't you "attended" to it? Is there something in your own system documentation that puts a time limit on "closing" customer complaints?

It is kind of difficult to know exactly what is going on here. But from what you have written, it appears as though you need to address the previous non-conformance. I have only been in this business for about 25 years, but have yet to see a non-conformance that could not be resolved by reasonable people trying their best to do so. I don't care how serious it is. Just because your customers have placed more orders dosen't mean that they aren't looking for another supplier. Customer Satisfaction is one of the cornerstones of ISO. You are not in business to satisfy the auditor, you are in business to satisfy your customers. It sounds like you need some serious conversation with your unhpppy customer to get all issues resonved. I'm sorry if I soumd like I am on a soap box, but I sure get tired of organizations blaming the "auditor" for their poor business practices and trying to rationalize not wanting to conform to the standard.

When I was talking about closing customer complaint, it means that we have taken the necessary action on the complaint raised by the customer and now nothing is pending.

this particular customer (who has riased the complaint for non-delivery of proper goods as per his fax), he is demanding replacement of the material or some compensation. our company is ready to pay the compensation or replace the material, but the customer is aksing to take the goods back (i.e. our company has to re-import the material) which will be too costly for our company. but there is no other option, but to re-import the consignmnet. for which lot of statutory & regulatory procedures are required to be followed up which causes delays.

please note that we have not received any non-conformance for this. yes, you are absolutely right about our customers looking for another supplier when they find complaint with our supply.so our main purpose ow is to satisfy the customer and then close the issue. Only after his satisfaction, will the customer send teh customer survey form duly filled in and signed. just as you rightly said we should not worry what the auditor will say / do, but we should first of all satisfy our customer. after all THE CUSTOMER IS THE KING. Tthanks a lot for your suggestions. bye

Yes, I'm a little confused about quite what's going on too.

but the customer is not filling out the customer survey form because he wants the old complaint to be attended to...
Which suggests something important: your customer (regardless of more orders) isn't happy about something. If this is the only leverage he has, it's not surprising he's using it. If your system uses these surveys as its main method of establishing satisfaction, you may need to review whether the method is effective?

so now, my main query is will the external auditors at the time of auditing in december 2009 (when our next external audit will be there), ask about this customer complaint. my coordinator says they will ask... but when it will be an old matter why would the external auditors ask for it
Maybe they will stumble across it, maybe not. If it isn't in the previous audit report, perhaps not (depends if they look at your complaints file or whatever).

But even IF they did, the very idea that IF they do then this will occur:

if it is not cleared, then the auditors will issue major NC and chances are that the certificate issued by the agency will be cancelled because of non closing of customer complaint..

is just a nonsense, a 'nightmare scenario' and very very unlikely (I won't say impossible only because I can't see all the relevant docs).

There is usually takes more than one instance of a problem before any CB issues a major NC. (They don't 'fail' you or 'withdraw/cancel' certification on one single instance, unless perhaps it was such a gross breach of requirements or of such serious and fundamental nature that they had to act.)

But if there was a recurring pattern of your failing to adequately address customer complaints, that's a different issue. And important.

As Bob says - the important thing is to respond to the complaint appropriately and satisfy your customer if possible. It may not be - you are required to consider complaints and decide what to do about them. You aren't required to everything and anything that any customer ever wants you to.

I note from the initial post that the coordinator is saying this needs to happen or there will be consequences. They may have exaggerated the extent of which the external auditor will react, however if we flip the coin, I have maybe employed similar tactics to ensure things would get done.

We have had an external audit approaching and people just not getting things done. It is a new office hence no routine established however I made it clear to the office manager for him to pass on, that if we did not get certification in this office, we lose it in all other offices, and in the market today that means massive repercussions.

It seemed to work when they thought of it in that way. They start to understand what external benefits there are to ISO 9001 in addition to smooth running office operations.

So to sum up, I defend the coordinator for scaremongering if, as it sounds, there is a simple solution to the issue that no-one has bothered to complete, and does not intend to. I would guess they just want to see the best outcome for the company and are less worried about the external auditor catching it.

I note from the initial post that the coordinator is saying this needs to happen or there will be consequences. They may have exaggerated the extent of which the external auditor will react, however if we flip the coin, I have maybe employed similar tactics to ensure things would get done.

We have had an external audit approaching and people just not getting things done. It is a new office hence no routine established however I made it clear to the office manager for him to pass on, that if we did not get certification in this office, we lose it in all other offices, and in the market today that means massive repercussions.

It seemed to work when they thought of it in that way. They start to understand what external benefits there are to ISO 9001 in addition to smooth running office operations.

So to sum up, I defend the coordinator for scaremongering if, as it sounds, there is a simple solution to the issue that no-one has bothered to complete, and does not intend to. I would guess they just want to see the best outcome for the company and are less worried about the external auditor catching it.

Assuming that there is a conscientious effort afoot to put the problem to bed, it should be enough to explain the situation to an auditor. Auditors shouldn't be allowed to impose their own deadlines on these things. On the other hand, if there's evidence of foot-dragging, there could be room for an auditor to provide the stimulus for getting the thing overwith.