Well I finally got the go ahead to do a full out 5S project in our Grinding department. We have a lot of room for improvement and I even have employees that are willing to be on a team that have been in a facility that started 5S about 4 years ago-and the best part they were both auditors.
I would like to have two teams (one on 1st shift and one on 2nd Shift) so both shifts feel ownership and responsibility. I have already done the initial 5S training and showed multiple images of what 5S is and what the “dirt and un-organization” in their department looks like. Now I need to make up a team. I want the operators to be involved, but I also need maintenance personnel on my team to build stands, shadow boards, fixtures for tools, help paint, get the paint..etc. I want the operators to paint and clean, but it would be nice to have a person dedicated to helping with 5S. In the past I did a small 5S along with my Black Belt project…but I did everything…painted, made the boards, organized, labeled tools, put together the tool cabinet…basically I did it all to get my black belt project completed. Well, those days are over, I am not trying to sound better than everyone, but I am ready to MANAGE the project and lead the teams. Can anyone help me develop a team to propose to upper management.

The department has about 20 on 1st, and 10 on second. I was thinking.
1 Director
2 team leaders (one on each shift)
2 Operators (on each shift)
1 Maintence personnel (on each shift)
1 Assistant (for posting data, making graphs, collecting info from auditors)
Then 2 auditors (one on 1st and one on 2nd shift) when the project is completed for standardize and sustain.

I can’t do this all on my own or they will not take ownership. How does the team sound??? What recommendations should I propose/demand from management? I need to pull operators away from production time…what is a reasonable amount to request? 1 hour a day? 10 hours a week?

This is why I came to the company 2 years ago...I am eager to succeed!

Thanks,

You need two things from management:

1) A committment that they will support the initiative. Getting a, "Sure, go ahead and do it." doesn't necessarily constitute as committment. Is upper management willing to lead the way? Maybe come out to help throw out garbage or clean some equipment?

2) A level of understanding of on what 5S is really about, and it just cleaning up an area. The idea behind 5S is to create an environment that is very visual and able to self-regulate itself.

Wayne

I need to pull operators away from production time…what is a reasonable amount to request? 1 hour a day? 10 hours a week?




My suggestion on pulling production operators away from production time. First let the team help define the process goals or milestones along the way. Then let the team (including the operators) estimate the time needed to reach the goals knowing that production cannot slide. And finally let the team determine how to accomplish the goals along with also meeting production goals. This will bring more team involvement and ownership, plus the experience operators probably know best how to squeeze in the time.

You need two things from management:

1) A committment that they will support the initiative. Getting a, "Sure, go ahead and do it." doesn't necessarily constitute as committment. Is upper management willing to lead the way? Maybe come out to help throw out garbage or clean some equipment?

2) A level of understanding of on what 5S is really about, and it just cleaning up an area. The idea behind 5S is to create an environment that is very visual and able to self-regulate itself.

Wayne

I agree! :agree1:

5-S is a total environmental and cultural change within an organization. Too often confused with a cleanup and wall-painting campaign highlighted with before and after pictures. Many organizations completely misunderstand the intent of 5-S. That's way the implementation of the last "S" fails....

If Management is not completely behind it, or better take the lead, 5-S is doomed to fail. But we have heard that one before haven't we?

Stijloor.

Don't forget to post the measures for a 5S initiative. If it's not measured it won't be improved.

I developed an excel spread sheet to track the 5S projects, and linked them to savings among other things. I tracked, for example, the square feet of spaced freed up. It was worth (around) 125 dollars. That's a one-time savings. Reduced travel time due to searching in an un-organized area; quantity of boxes thrown away etc. are some examples of other things I measured in 5S projects.

Don't forget to post the measures for a 5S initiative. If it's not measured it won't be improved.

I developed an excel spread sheet to track the 5S projects, and linked them to savings among other things. I tracked, for example, the square feet of spaced freed up. It was worth (around) 125 dollars. That's a one-time savings. Reduced travel time due to searching in an un-organized area; quantity of boxes thrown away etc. are some examples of other things I measured in 5S projects.

When you reach your 5 post count, can you attach your 5-S tracking spread sheet?

Stijloor, Forum Moderator.

Don't forget to post the measures for a 5S initiative. If it's not measured it won't be improved.

I developed an excel spread sheet to track the 5S projects, and linked them to savings among other things. I tracked, for example, the square feet of spaced freed up. It was worth (around) 125 dollars. That's a one-time savings. Reduced travel time due to searching in an un-organized area; quantity of boxes thrown away etc. are some examples of other things I measured in 5S projects.

Hi Janedoe,

Don't take this the wrong way, but the space cleared up resulted in zero savings. It is still being accounted for as a fixed overhead. This is the reason so many claimed savings are often viewed with much skepticism by an organization's accounting department. Unless you could actually take that amount of space out of the overhead costs, it doesn't account (pun intended) for anything.

That being said, I don't agree with many of the accounting practicing practices in use today such as the need to absorb overhead which all too often results in over-production. What you should look at are those metrics which can impact the bottom line on a monthly basis. Of course there are many "soft" benefits such as improvements in morale and getting people engaged, but those won't necessarily make sense to the accounting crowd. As such, this has resulted in the interest of "Lean Accounting" methods, but at the end of the day GAAP stills in the accounting world in the U.S.

Just state the improvement as a decrease in floor space used, and present the savings as an "opportunity" should they be able to move a new product into that space. As groups free up space, I will typically have the area cordoned off and not allow anything to be put there until someone has an idea how to make money from it. On one hand it keeps it from simply getting cluttered up, but more importantly; it forces them to keep thinking about where the next improvement will come or what the next generation layout will look like.

Wayne

I agree with you Wayne that the accounting practices are dis-functional. GAAP procedures have stayed essentially the same since the 1800's...what's that say for the world of accounting?

Isn't it funny that accountants will claim it costs 125 /sq ft to maintain a building, but when an improvement is accomplished in favor of a savings they refuse to admit the impact. Much the same as they do when claiming that the costs of carrying inventory is 10%. (Hahahahah....I never encountered a business where that was the case, rather, it was more like 45%...but I had to prove it).

At the end of the day the sad part is this: The man in the corner office listens to the accountant rather than someone who understands the drivers of business.

Oh well.

Hi Janedoe,

Don't take this the wrong way, but the space cleared up resulted in zero savings. It is still being accounted for as a fixed overhead. This is the reason so many claimed savings are often viewed with much skepticism by an organization's accounting department. Unless you could actually take that amount of space out of the overhead costs, it doesn't account (pun intended) for anything.

That being said, I don't agree with many of the accounting practicing practices in use today such as the need to absorb overhead which all too often results in over-production. What you should look at are those metrics which can impact the bottom line on a monthly basis. Of course there are many "soft" benefits such as improvements in morale and getting people engaged, but those won't necessarily make sense to the accounting crowd. As such, this has resulted in the interest of "Lean Accounting" methods, but at the end of the day GAAP stills in the accounting world in the U.S.

Just state the improvement as a decrease in floor space used, and present the savings as an "opportunity" should they be able to move a new product into that space. As groups free up space, I will typically have the area cordoned off and not allow anything to be put there until someone has an idea how to make money from it. On one hand it keeps it from simply getting cluttered up, but more importantly; it forces them to keep thinking about where the next improvement will come or what the next generation layout will look like.

Wayne

When you reach your 5 post count, can you attach your 5-S tracking spread sheet?

Stijloor, Forum Moderator.

It's an "ods" file and can not be loaded. Please be patient until I can convert it into excel.

It's an "ods" file and can not be loaded. Please be patient until I can convert it into excel.

Meanwhile you may wish to use one marvellous 5S Audit Form created by cover Javier Rubio. I could not find the link, hence attaching the file here. I found this very very useful.

Umang :D

Meanwhile you may wish to use one marvellous 5S Audit Form created by cover Javier Rubio. I could not find the link, hence attaching the file here. I found this very very useful.

Umang :D

Hi Umang - here is the link - http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=141884&postcount=4

Isn't it funny that accountants will claim it costs 125 /sq ft to maintain a building, but when an improvement is accomplished in favor of a savings they refuse to admit the impact. Much the same as they do when claiming that the costs of carrying inventory is 10%. (Hahahahah....I never encountered a business where that was the case, rather, it was more like 45%...but I had to prove it).



Actually, I never let anyone take "emptied" space as a savings. Unless you make the space itself go away, nothing was saved. If rent on 100,000 sq. ft. building was $10,000/month, emptying out the space didn't reduce the cost. Not too mention the cost for utilities, unsurances, taxes, etc.

Wayne

Actually, I never let anyone take "emptied" space as a savings. Unless you make the space itself go away, nothing was saved. If rent on 100,000 sq. ft. building was $10,000/month, emptying out the space didn't reduce the cost. Not too mention the cost for utilities, unsurances, taxes, etc.

Wayne

Excellent points Wayne! :agree1:

I always look at space used for value-added activities. So, if a space is cleared during 5-S and converted for true value-added activities, this can be viewed as a gain, improvement so to speak.

In countries where manufacturing "space" comes at premium (i.e: Japan, Holland), there's usually a lot more emphasis on how space is utilized.

Stijloor.

Don't forget to post the measures for a 5S initiative. If it's not measured it won't be improved.

I developed an excel spread sheet to track the 5S projects, and linked them to savings among other things. I tracked, for example, the square feet of spaced freed up. It was worth (around) 125 dollars. That's a one-time savings. Reduced travel time due to searching in an un-organized area; quantity of boxes thrown away etc. are some examples of other things I measured in 5S projects.


hi to all!

i agree with you janedoe, thats precisely what the people in the organization should have, a measurable accomplishements, that what we do also. :)

Great thread I hope it's not dead.

The number one thing you need from management is commitment. This can be conjured in a number of ways. Here are a couple of ways to gain some commitment.

I conduct 5S through the use of a structured Kaizen process that ends with an unveil to management and staff. Typically I will send out an open invitation and then let the Kaizen team members do the end presentation which includes a slide show showing before and after, goals of the kaizen, brief process map, Kaizen newsletter describing leftovers and finally cost savings. While it may be difficult for an employee to answer pointed questions, it is also rewarding to show one's work.

One of the most rewarding processes I have been involved in of late is the Gemba walk. Basically this involves the management group auditing for 5S, TPM, Productivity, Quality and Safety. Each process is audited throughout the week and reviewed with the lead/supervisor of that area. There are a number of advantages to this.

1. The management group provides feedback weekly to the staff.
2. The employees have an opportunity to voice concerns.
3. Supervisors have to be accountable for what is found as they will be asked for status reports.

This is an investment of 1 hour a day by management and I have seen plenty of resistance but in the end the benefits outweigh the time loss. Specially if it's your area being audited.

What I find is after the Kaizen unveil if the area is a mess on a Gemba some pointed questions occur.

I have to agree with the last post. :agree1: This sounds like a perect chance to implement a Kaizen Event.

ramp up production in the week/weekend before and/or the week/weekend after. Then take the team that you identified & take them through kaizen training concentrating on 5s Principles, Auditing Process, 8 Wastes, NVA, VA etc etc.

I suggest between a 3-5 day event that should end with a presentation to management.

But im learning more and more that the most important people in all of this is surprisingly, management. :frust: If they dont jump on board and (more likely) understand what you are trying to achieve and what is possible to achieve, then the rest doesnt matter. You ll do harm than good by introducing something that is not supprted from the top (or bottom within the lean approach).

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress!

In my last lean implementation I began the process starting the first couple of days on the line looking for improvements. When I asked the plant manager the first day for two days to work on the line the crafty manufacturing veteran revised my training schedule. In these first two days not only did I find 32 improvements that could recieve immediate action, I also fostered a lot of good will with the supervisors and employees.

During these two days I found the biggest obstacle for a new employee running a printing press was lack of training. I had run web offset printing and was certified however the supervisor expected I knew it all about the companies press and procedures. He gave very vague outline of what he wanted done. I was lucky the 1st pressman nursemaided me through the two days or my efficency would have hurt us. So the biggest improvement step was training the trainer.

Starting with the supervisors and front line managers I pulled together a train the trainer program based on the Training Within the Industries program used by the US during World War 2. I had to re-write large portions to make it current to the work force today.

What I like in the program is it breaks complex processes into basic training steps that the supervisor is responsibile to train his employees to. The supervisor also self-monitors progress of the employees.

This was very succesful in getting buy in from the supervisors and the employees and radically cut down rejections due to operators.

IMHO: I think sometimes we are so caught up in systems we fail to provide the tools to the guys on the floor making the cogs.

Hi

I think to are going in the right directionj with your approach.

The key thing i find is that its usually failry easy to get the low hanging fruit in particular during the sort and set phase, however to achieve this in a sustainable way for the long term is the hard part. Therefore i would ask what is the culture like in your organsiation to the Lean approach? Is it embedded?

Also is there the motivation from the employees at all stakeholder levels.

Finally how is the audit process to be approached. I like to conduct the audit with the following

- 3rd party
- 5S Trainer
- Employees

This is a good way of understanding whether we are all singing from the same hymnsheet

James

Finally how is the audit process to be approached. I like to conduct the audit with the following

- 3rd party
- 5S Trainer
- Employees

This is a good way of understanding whether we are all singing from the same hymnsheet

James

Agreed. Its helpful to get a member of the work center being audited and a member of another work center. It helps team members standardize 5S practices across the plant/business. For example, all work centers are organized so that tooling is in a certain location (always to the top left of the work center), etc.