I know (and I think it's normal) that those who perform compliance audits (4.5.2) need to be competent. But to what extent and why a particular competence is necessary (other than being an auditor)? Actually, they are only evaluate if the legal (or other requirements) are observed (e.g. comparing reality to requirements in documents....).
I never performed an 4.5.2 audit, so maybe it's a silly question...but I need a solid answer, to use it in my future argumentations with top mgm.

Hi armani:

Im sorry but where are you quoting this 4.5.2 from?

Competence is neccesary to perform any audit successfuly and effectively.

Ciao. :cool:

Hi armani:

Im sorry but where are you quoting this 4.5.2 from?

Competence is neccesary to perform any audit successfuly and effectively.

Ciao. :cool:

Armani is referring to ISO 14001.

Stijloor.

Actually, they are only evaluate if the legal (or other requirements) are observed (e.g. comparing reality to requirements in documents....).I find the word "only" out of place in that sentence. Probably because I am physically located in a place where organizations are overwhelmed with all environmental regulations they are subjected to. At all levels: federal, state, county, municipal, etc...

I guess if you work in a place where there are few (or none) environmental regulatory requirements, audit for regulatory compliance is a breeze, and the auditor competence requirements are easy to comply with. But, in certain places and sectors, the body of knowledge one must have, to be an effective regulatory compliance auditor is quite extensive.

Lets say your organization has regulatory compliance requirements in the area of air emissions control...the laws governing them and the permits controlling them....Would you want someone auditing or determining your compliance efforts and status that had no background in the subject? And better yet let's really make it fun...If you violate the law there is a real potential for you to personally face criminal charges and prison time along with civil lawsuits and for your facility to be padlocked and closed. Now, how important is the competence of that "compliance" evaluator or auditor?

Welcome to the world of environmental compliance evaluation and the need for competence. You just don't want some jack-leg doing it...especially in the USA and especially, especially in California and a couple other select states.:nope:

Lets say your organization has regulatory compliance requirements in the area of air emissions control...the laws governing them and the permits controlling them....Would you want someone auditing or determining your compliance efforts and status that had no background in the subject? And better yet let's really make it fun...If you violate the law there is a real potential for you to personally face criminal charges and prison time along with civil lawsuits and for your facility to be padlocked and closed. Now, how important is the competence of that "compliance" evaluator or auditor?

Welcome to the world of environmental compliance evaluation and the need for competence. You just don't want some jack-leg doing it...especially in the USA and especially, especially in California and a couple other select states.:nope:

I got the point...:
But I met various organizations where internal auditors are performing these compliance audits saying "it's not big deal, I'm comparing the law requirements with what I found on site....why do I need special competences to realize that a permit is missing , an emission is not monitored and so on"??

Why? Becasue the USEPA can afford better lawyers and has more money to spend in court is one of the best reasons.

This is like playing russian roulette with 5 of the 6 chambers loaded.

Go ahead, I'll watch