Hello - I am new to posting on the cove.

I have been out of Quality for the past few years and finding it time consuming trying to get catch up on EVERYTHING that has passed me by.

The company that I work for has been a tier 2 supplier, we are making our jump to tier 1. We have a transducer supplier submitting their ppap. How many parts should I have them submit? I appreciate any and all help.

Hello - I am new to posting on the cove.

I have been out of Quality for the past few years and finding it time consuming trying to get catch up on EVERYTHING that has passed me by.

The company that I work for has been a tier 2 supplier, we are making our jump to tier 1. We have a transducer supplier submitting their ppap. How many parts should I have them submit? I appreciate any and all help.
Welcome to the Cove. :D
You should ask for as many samples as you think are necessary; there is no minimum number. How many are submitted is a function of what you intend to do with the sample vis a vis the PPAP submission. For example, you might want to do testing or dimensional verification on the number of parts that will give you confidence in the supplier's submitted data. Keep in mind that PPAP samples are saleable product (or should be) and you will probably be expected to pay for them.

Jim is correct that you would be expected to pay for run off etc parts but get what you need to make your PPAP valid (prove your end of the process). I will say that if it was just to verify dimensionals, most of the time the supplier would include one if the parts were cheep.

If you do need samples, make sure to ask the correct questions. Multiple stamping lanes, cavities, dies, different weld stations etc?? You want to see the data as related to how their process runs. I lost track of the times that “identically” made parts were substantially different.

It is also nice to have some means to tells them apart (extra weld dot in a specific location, Alpha/numeric code in stamped info, cavity/die info that is still visible after processing if possible). It’s useless info (tongue in cheek) until you have a problem and then you really need it.

The submit parts number depend your need.

Jim is correct that you would be expected to pay for run off etc parts but get what you need to make your PPAP valid (prove your end of the process). I will say that if it was just to verify dimensionals, most of the time the supplier would include one if the parts were cheep.

If you do need samples, make sure to ask the correct questions. Multiple stamping lanes, cavities, dies, different weld stations etc?? You want to see the data as related to how their process runs. I lost track of the times that “identically” made parts were substantially different.

It is also nice to have some means to tells them apart (extra weld dot in a specific location, Alpha/numeric code in stamped info, cavity/die info that is still visible after processing if possible). It’s useless info (tongue in cheek) until you have a problem and then you really need it.

Multiple stamping lanes, cavities, dies, different weld stations etc is minimum:)

Also, if you have to submit PPAP to YOUR customer, a minimum number of samples should be agreed to.
I always insist the customer provide a PPAP checksheet to ensure we know all the requirements (which is normally negotiable early in the process).
As the others have written, you'll want samples from all cavities/stations and the sample run should be large enough for statistical validity if Process Capability is required.

Like was mentioned it really depends on a couple factors.

1) How many samples is your customer requiring of you? The default is 300, but it depends on what you have negotiated with your customer. You need to have at least enough Tier II components to handle that quantity plus some extra for the "just in case" scenario.

2) Is there any risk that your product could have a problem with capability and may need to be re run prior to your PPAP? What about performing a trial run prior to PPAP to ensure your process is set up correctly? Either of these situations would indicate a need to have extra components on hand.

3) If you ordered extra transducers, will they be able to be used for production parts in the near future without them becoming obsolete? I always felt better in ordering more components than less as long as they could be used.

If for example you decided to order 700 for example, I would expect the supplier to produce all of them in one production PPAP run, but the PPAP documentation would only be based on an agreed quantity of them (300?) and not the entire batch.