During several informal interactions with senior auditors, I have heard them talk and mention about " Strengthening Internal Audits "
While I agree in total, I wish to ask here, what obstacles are faced in this objective, and how they have been overcome and succeeded in real strengthening of the audit process. I hope many MR's, and others from across the globe can put more light into this and with examples .....

During several informal interactions with senior auditors, I have heard them talk and mention about " Strengthening Internal Audits "
While I agree in total, I wish to ask here, what obstacles are faced in this objective, and how they have been overcome and succeeded in real strengthening of the audit process. I hope many MR's, and others from across the globe can put more light into this and with examples .....

Two words:

Management Commitment........

:agree1:

During several informal interactions with senior auditors, I have heard them talk and mention about " Strengthening Internal Audits "
While I agree in total, I wish to ask here, what obstacles are faced in this objective, and how they have been overcome and succeeded in real strengthening of the audit process. I hope many MR's, and others from across the globe can put more light into this and with examples .....On another thread, I had attached the THE TOP 10 REASONS WHY INTERNAL QUALITY SYSTEM.zip (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5410) document that I used during some ASQ sessions to share my experience of why most organizations end up with ineffective internal audits.

Please note that the original document was a PowerPoint file with some hyperlinks. But the pdf version should give you an insight of what I see as some of the most typical reasons for substandard internal auditing.

Two words:

Management Commitment........

:agree1:
Sir, There is a lot in your "two words". If I take that as the obstacle, then how does one overcome ?

Sir, There is a lot in your "two words". If I take that as the obstacle, then how does one overcome ?

True! Well, like most things that require 'Management Commitment' to be successful, there has to be something in it for them.......

Many internal audit programs are only successful in maintaining a certification. It 'pleases' a CB auditor and that's about all! And, in very general terms, internal audit programs and the associated audits (and auditors) are a replication of external (again, CB) audits. There's not much in there to truly 'excite' management!

One area that can be improved immediately is the scheduling and planning of audits. The management of the organization are rarely if ever involved in the decision of what and when to audit! It is they who should be able to answer what 'status and importance' really means!

One which might take a little longer - and to some extent will be based on building further commitment - is the people who are 'chosen' to do the audits. Did management have any hand in selecting someone? Did they even have a clue what the criteria might be for an effective internal auditor?

So, there you have two key areas which need strengthening! Both need 'Management Participation', which will - ultimately - lead to commitment..

On another thread, I had attached the THE TOP 10 REASONS WHY INTERNAL QUALITY SYSTEM.zip (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5410) document that I used during some ASQ sessions to share my experience of why most organizations end up with ineffective internal audits.


When I attempt to open the zipped file I get this error message, "The compressed (zipped) folder is invalid or corrupted". Is anyone else having this problem?

However, when I viewed the original thread it was posted in, http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=15304&page=2, it opens just fine. Find it here if you have a similar problem.

When I attempt to open the zipped file I get this error message, "The compressed (zipped) folder is invalid or corrupted". Is anyone else having this problem?

However, when I viewed the original thread it was posted in, http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=15304&page=2, it opens just fine. Find it here if you have a similar problem.

Nope...it opened up just fine for me....

Thanks for link, though! :bigwave:

I agree the key to getting Management Commitment is showing them what's in it for them. The universal way of getting their attention is show them in $$$$$$$. Save them $$$ and you have thier commitment!

I would include process audits in your internal audit program if you haven't already. By regularly auditing process, you monitor whether your process is in control, but you also get a look at efficiency, potential rework reduction opportunities, and like areas you can highlight and show as potential cost reduction/savings opportunities.

This are process improvement efforts that can be shown to Management as cost savings evaluations. Save them $$$ and get their attention and support.

I have 2 questions. Thef irst one is related to the example used in the presentation. How do you know the customer is looking for another supplier? Surely we should only base our findings on facts. My second question is about management. What does the auditor do if management themselves are not completing the actions that they agreed to complete?

Thef irst one is related to the example used in the presentation. How do you know the customer is looking for another supplier? I take you are referring to my proposed text Despite our persistent problems with over 150 misidentified parts, shipped to ACME Medical Devices in the last 3 months, our most recent audit identified 3 (out of 45) mislabeled parts staged for shipment to this client.
Our sales manager has already been contacted by ACME MD and we believe that the customer might be looking for an alternative supplier at this point.
That was a fictional (but not unrealistic) scenario. My point is HOW you present a finding and/or a non-conformity can either grab management's attention, alienate it or put it to sleep.

Besides the language of $, you can use RISK as a way of communication with top management. Sometimes, it is very difficult for us to come up with a monetary value to a problem, but we can always use the language of risk management to make a business case.

In the example above, I was trying to convey to upper management the potential business consequences of allowing the substandard process (which ships mislabelled products to the client) to continue.

In my view, you are much more likely to grab their (top management) attention with that, compared to 3 parts were found in the shipping area with the wrong label applied.

I have 2 questions. Thef irst one is related to the example used in the presentation. How do you know the customer is looking for another supplier? Surely we should only base our findings on facts. My second question is about management. What does the auditor do if management themselves are not completing the actions that they agreed to complete?

In addition to Sidney's excellent suggestions, you could copy the Owners and/or the Board of Directors on your audit results.
This may put you in a possible hot seat ;), but I assure you that someone will respond. Tough economic times require drastic measures. :yes:

Stijloor.