In your company use a stamping for Document control.
(Control copy, uncontrol copy).

this neceeesy for ISO.
And why this method are population.

thanks,
Berseak

In your company use a stamping for Document control.
(Control copy, uncontrol copy).

this neceeesy for ISO.
And why this method are population.

thanks,
Berseak


some direct guidance: Stamping documents is sometimes easier if they are still in paper format (and not electronic). ISO does not make this a requirement (see below) only that a suitable method is used.

ISO 4.2.3 "Control of documents"
Documents required by the quality management system shall be controlled. Records are a special type of document and shall be controlled according to the requirements given in 4.2.4....also
g) to prevent the unintended use of obsolete documents, and to apply suitable identification to them if they are retained for any purpose.

In your company use a stamping for Document control.
(Control copy, uncontrol copy).

this neceeesy for ISO.
And why this method are population.

thanks,
Berseak

I think it's just the easiest method.. therefore popular.

Mike:

It's popular for two basic reasons:-

It's accepted by some CB auditors
It's easy

It's not necessarily effective document control, but some folks believe it's a component of such......

IMHO

Mike:

It's popular for two basic reasons:-

It's accepted by some CB auditors
It's easy

It's not necessarily effective document control, but some folks believe it's a component of such......

IMHO

I sincerely think stamping docs is a good practice , but at the same time it is very tricky. Just consider the amount of pain which is involved in the document control activity. Every time you go for a revision change you have to do a lot of stamping.

Other posters have mentioned about "Controlled" and "Uncontrolled" stamps but there is a third type of stamp that should also be used called "Obsolete". If the documentation is small in volume, it is still possible , but consider about a multi-site complex QMS........AWWWW.... it would be too much cumbersome.:mad:

Regards,

Arin

In your company use a stamping for Document control.
(Control copy, uncontrol copy).

this neceeesy for ISO.
And why this method are population.

thanks,
Berseak

Manage (control) all your documents electronically.
Declare all hard copies "uncontrolled."

Voila! Case closed.

Stijloor.

I sincerely think stamping docs is a good practice , but at the same time it is very tricky. Just consider the amount of pain which is involved in the document control activity. Every time you go for a revision change you have to do a lot of stamping.

Arin

My desk is covered in documents, right now. Procedures, forms, standards and all the other related documentation which helps me to provide CB services to our clients. Not one is stamped with anything to indicate its control status.......

Everything I have here is a 'controlled document' as far as our quality system goes (we are ISO 9001 and ISO/IEC 17021 registered/accredited)

Is there a problem. I don't see one, frankly! Nor a need for me to stamp paperwork.

My desk is covered in documents, right now. Procedures, forms, standards and all the other related documentation which helps me to provide CB services to our clients. Not one is stamped with anything to indicate its control status.......

Everything I have here is a 'controlled document' as far as our quality system goes (we are ISO 9001 and ISO/IEC 17021 registered/accredited)

Is there a problem. I don't see one, frankly! Nor a need for me to stamp paperwork.

ISO section 4.2.3 g) ..prevent the unintended use of obsolete documents, and to apply suitable identification to them if they are retained for any purpose.

I'd think this requirement would be applicable... if you can show how you control security of use and identify any documents that may be obsolete (have been re-released/up-issued) then there isn't a problem.

not to be too sarcastic but...maybe leave a few scattered abound during your next audit ... see what happens :cool:

though it very popular, there are still ways to make it improve.

document controller can post a list of updates on each department, thus eliminating stamping.

the list are revewd and approved by the document and record owners, and approved by the doc controller.


:agree1:

though it very popular, there are still ways to make it improve.

document controller can post a list of updates on each department, thus eliminating stamping.

the list are revewd and approved by the document and record owners, and approved by the doc controller.


:agree1:

One problem with hardcopy documentation lies in a situation where printed copies become obsolete and invariably get retained for one reason or another...posting updates doesn't automatically address printed obsolete documents. They need to be either identified as "uncontrolled" / "obsolete" or removed from circulation (destroyed).

I worked for a company that once had thousands of pages of documentation, distributed to dozens of data-centers. With each new doc release, distribution was very, very painful. All data-centers were reminded to perform a replace and destroy. They even had to reply with "acknowledgment receipts" to indicate they had indeed received the new document. :truce: The system was extremely cumbersome and prone to frequent failure. Now the same company has a document control system that is fully electronic and the difference is worth every cent spent. A watermark on every printed document states "uncontrolled when printed"...the electronic copy is the "controlled" version and can be read directly from the company intranet and each data-center has a PC.

I agree with an earlier comment... if you are able to electronically control your documentation, a lot of problems go away very quickly.

Smaller operations may not be able to justify the costs (but it doesn't have to be an expensive system). Implement a solution that is a good fit for your operations.

i agree with you mike.:bigwave:

though i did not specify details on the matter, its correct, you did provide the details :agree1:

i just explain in a more "old fashion" way of controlling, hard copy type and not electronically. that is a improved manual system comparing to stamping.

but if electronic system can be use, why not, as the previous posters did advice.:cool:

Mike H:

If the person using the documents has half a clue about document status, stamping doesn't become a problem. On top of that, if the change process is robust to tell them that documents have changed - 'throw away your old ones' - why does stamping need to be done?

I agree some folks well never 'get it' and some form of limitation on use is necessary.........but I'd defy an auditor to find any document on my desk that was obsolete........compared to the on-line version........

Mike H:

If the person using the documents has half a clue about document status, stamping doesn't become a problem. On top of that, if the change process is robust to tell them that documents have changed - 'throw away your old ones' - why does stamping need to be done?

I agree some folks well never 'get it' and some form of limitation on use is necessary.........but I'd defy an auditor to find any document on my desk that was obsolete........compared to the on-line version........

Stamping....:frust::frust: Old habits die hard. Document control technology still competes with classic methods...:(

Stijloor.

Stamping....:frust::frust: Old habits die hard. Document control technology still competes with classic methods...:(

Stijloor.

So true!

Lets make 2009 a year to "STAMP OUT STAMPING"..........:lmao::notme::mg:

Lets make 2009 a year to "STAMP OUT STAMPING"..........:lmao::notme::mg:

What are the alternative document control methods? Say it’s a web-based. How to obtain approval, performing periodic review of the content; distinguish controlled, uncontrolled and obsolete documents, etc.? The critical part is the integrity of documentation on the website is mainatined and protected. I think the web designer (even a contractor or an outsider) should be trained on ISO 9001 to fulfill the requirements of the intent of the standard.

What are the alternative document control methods? Say it’s a web-based. How to obtain approval, performing periodic review of the content; distinguish controlled, uncontrolled and obsolete documents, etc.? The critical part is ‘protection’ of documentation on the website. I think the web designer (who is an outsider) should be trained on ISO 9001 to fulfill the requirements of the intent of ISO 9001.


With regard to "stamping" (which I interpret to mean using a rubber stamp to mark documents), it should be easy to see the primary argument against it, that being that it introduces yet another thing to be controlled--the stamps themselves.

As far as methods of control are concerned, there has been much discussion about it in the Cove already.

With regard to "stamping" (which I interpret to mean using a rubber stamp to mark documents), it should be easy to see the primary argument against it, that being that it introduces yet another thing to be controlled--the stamps themselves.

As far as methods of control are concerned, there has been much discussion about it in the Cove already.

we'll be migrating from hardcopy to paper less in the 4th quarter of 2009. therefore, no more rubber stamp. i am thinking of alternative control. i know that there are methods applicable to hardcopy but not applicable to electronic copy. one way or another, the integrity of documentation in electronic format should be maintained. for sure i'll search discussions about this in the previous threads.

we'll be migrating from hardcopy to paper less in the 4th quarter of 2009. therefore, no more rubber stamp. i am thinking of alternative control. i know that there are methods applicable to hardcopy but not applicable to electronic copy. one way or another, the integrity of documentation in electronic format should be maintained. for sure i'll search discussions about this in the previous threads.

Probably the most common is to generate a read-only document as your controlled copy, such as Adobe Acrobat(or similar) .pdf files - which also makes all documents readable - including weido MS Publisher and Visio files. You can also password lock Windows files if you choose. Some systems only allow you to see the controlled document in the database - and do not permit print or download. But, the front-end is still the same - someone has to bring the revision to the control system, the authorized people have to approve before the change is made - more or less depending on the needs of your system, the standards you need to meet (ISO, federal, etc.) and your customer demands - and you may need to show effectiveness (or, as Dr. Phil would say: "How's that working for you?").

Covers, we gather here today to honor the memory of "rubber stamp" while he was with us he touched the lives of everyone in the world of documentation, some more than others. We have provided rubber stamp with a final resting place and a headstone that contains epitaph. "May rubber stamp rest in peace.Amen"

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/135090189_6f326b3245.jpg?v=0

It's too big to bury. :tg:

@bobdoering: I'll pay that one...

:topic:
**My background has always been with companies on the larger side capable of throwing personnel at the "stamp control" problem, though I recently moved to much smaller business only this week. They doesn't have a Quality system, the thrust over the next 1-2years will be towards AS9100... stamping in any form is not used and I reserve my judgement whether we intend to even go down that path (for I know the folly of it!)**:notme: