Anybody

While visiting the site, Yup-early Saturday morning, my Grandson, who had spent an overnight here, looked over my shoulder to see what “Grampy” was doing. What caught his eye, was the colorful emoticons, at first. I was preparing a response to a post and he was reading what I was typing. He is 8 years old. He asked, “Grampy, what are doing?” I told him I was working at home. Ha Ha. He asked, “What kind of work do you do? I kind of know what Mom and Dad and Grammy do.” I found myself pondering how to respond to an 8 year old that wants to know what we quality geeks do. After blustering to him, and myself, “I’m a Quality Manager”, (I deliberately left out “Control” or “Assurance” because even we have different opinions about that), he asked, “What’s that?”

Well, it was if I was speaking another language as I tried to equate my job with something he could grasp. It was easier when I was an Inspector. “I inspect things to make sure they were O.K.” I noticed he had a battery operated remote controlled “Quad” toy in his hand. He had momentarily taken a brief respite from testing its impact worthiness against the furniture, walls and various obstacles on the floor. I then told him that there is a group of people whose jobs it is to make sure that toy doesn’t break under normal use. That it runs a certain amount of time on the batteries. That it works just like the package says. All the little parts are checked to make sure they can be put together. There are the people who actually do “inspecting” of everything. There are people who do the “testing” that it works right. Everything, including the colorful box and the Styrofoam container, was designed by people who do “Design” work. Kind of like artists. All those things that the other people do are written down so they don’t forget how to do their job.

Now the best part: The Quality Manager, me Grampy, oversees it all to make sure that everything is done right. That everybody follows their instructions. If they don’t follow their instructions, Grampy has to find out why and fix it.
Man, am I full of myself, or what? Don’t answer that. :biglaugh:
My Grandson then said, I swear, “That sounds like a pretty important job”.

It is, you Quality Geeks, it really is!

Ahhh Grandkids - my 3 year old grandson is convinced that when Paw-pa is at the computer he is "Playing Mail" - his face lights up and he comes running to the screen when the service plays the "you've got mail" announcement.:p

Nice story energy!!

Question folks: do you think Quality Managers (perhaps, all Quality Folks) internalize their work better than other segments/functions?

Just thinking…..


Kevin

Kevin,

I think properly trained quality personnel have a better grasp of the importance of initiating and following requirements.

When I say properly trained I don't mean school work or degrees. I think in the quality field one needs a basic understanding of how to do thing right and follow through with the mind set.

Most people I know in the quality field that are worth their salt realize that quality is a mindset for both proffesional and personal growth.

That said, I don't believe having the word quality in your job title means that you have a "quality" mind set.

I've met quality managers that couldn't talk their way out of quality 101 course. I've also interacted with many people that don't have the word quality in their title, but have the common sense to know what is the proper way of doing things.

I don't care about degrees or wether you can operate a CMM or calibrate a micrometer, quality for the most part equals common sense.

Marc,

Need that soapbox again, must have misplaced it!

Hi Al,

I think you are correct when you say, "one needs a basic understanding of how to do thing right and follow through with the mind set". Where do you think these traits originiate? I ask this because I can see it being a kind of "chicken & egg" problem. Are quality professionals (those who are worth their salt) drawn to the profession because they were taught the right way to do things - and are inherently drawn in this direction; or - does the profession, by the very nature of the job requirements, instill a compulsion to do a better job?

Like you, I've met a number of people who claim to be in the quality profession but sure don't act or work like it.

I'd be interested in your thoughts. For that matter - I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter. For starters, here are mine...

Personally, I believe that those who really believe in the principles of Quality Management will carry this belief over from their professional life into their personal life. The concepts espoused by Deming, Senge, Scholtes, and other luminaries in the field of Quality are as applicable to the personal as the professional... and if truly internalized - the quality professional cannot help but apply them everywhere. For example, my hobby is wood working... That is my "therapy" if you will... Now, I try to do my very best on every project I undertake. Sometimes, that "very best" is simply mediocre, comparatively speaking, because I don't yet have all the tools I need to turn out "Norm Abrams" quality work. (Ya gotta love that 48" belt sander he uses!!! :biglaugh: ) However, that does not stop me from doing the very best job I can with the tools I have, and being proud of the results.

Cheers!!

Michael,

I guess my age will show with this response but I will keep it short. I believe our upbringing has the most to do with the topic. I was raised to respect intelligence, to know the difference between right and wrong, and through my mother and father what a good work ethic is.

They came over from Scotland in the mid 50's and had me in 58. They had such respect for right & wrong and what the work ethic was that those traits were instilled in me.

Just as an example, when I was 19 and didn't want to go to work because I had been partying all night. My father "gently" reminded me: "Son, if your going to drink like a man, go to work like a man!"

Great man to me, he worked at Chrysler Headquarters in Highland Park as a Senior Buyer for 25 years and never missed a day.

I guess I am just saying that it goes farther back than schooling, it starts with the family.

Hi Al,

Thanks for responding.... I love this... "I guess my age will show with this response...They came over from Scotland in the mid 50's and had me in 58...." Please don't go there.... that makes you only 5 years older than me. ;) I'm not ready to admit my age yet... :ko: Thanks for the chuckle!!!

I absolutely agree with the work ethic - my grandfather was in quality for 35 years with Roper and he is my hero. He and my father taught me that your work says everything about your character. It's funny, but I never knew my Grandpa was a QA man until his eulogy last December. He retired when I was 13 and never really talked about what he did - he just let the work he did in his shop reflect his beliefs. I would like to think that his ethics rubbed off - or perhaps were gently taught to an errant young man... :)

Thanks again for writing....

Cheers!!

Micheal,

Have a Tennants for me!!!:)

It is my believe that the quality mentality is a reflection of ones upbringing, as some of you said, as well as other past experiences. I know I was instilled with doing thing right the first time from my parents. In addition when I was with the 101st Airborne in Vietnam my being a combat medic gave me the realization that other peoples lives depended on me doing a quality job. Later in life I worked at GE Medical Systems and again I was instilled with the fact that people’s lives depend on the product that we made. Now I am no longer involved with high tech product but realize that even low-tech items, such as the fire hydrants I now help produce, need to be correct to prevent people from losing their lives.

When hiring someone for a position in our quality department I like to see how they care for themselves and their personal property. If they show they care for both, it can be assumed that they have a good chance to be quality minded.

Artists really internalize their work. They live the personal lives a lot like they live the work lives. I think Quality folks tend to do the same. I even think Finance folks tend to as well. But how about other areas like Manufacturing, Shipping, or Marketing?

Kevin

Kevin,

Sorry, thaat will cost you $2.00.

Please send it to ADRF,

Al Dyer Retirement Fund! :)

Does hypothethis come before theory?

egg before the chicken

The egg is a hypothesis because it is a possibility, the chicken is a theory because it is a living being.

Forgive the spelling!

Hmmmmmmm... what comes first, hypothesis or theory? It may be too early in the morning for this train of thought - I'm only on my second cup of coffee.

Let's see - operational definition of "theory": a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena.
Operational definition of "hypothesis": a provisional theory set forth to explain some class of phenomena, either accepted as a guide to future investigation or assumed for the sake of arguement and testing.
{Random House Webster's College Dictionary, 2000}
(These are offered as operational definitions for reference purposes - feel free to argue them)

Okay.... now let's play -- :biglaugh: By definition above, and using Al's ascertion that the egg is the hypothesis and the chicken is the theory...

The chicken comes before the egg, since the theory must be in place before the hypothesis can be formed.

Refering to Dr. Deming's thoughts concerning the Theory of Knowledge, since knowledge is built on theory, it is my ascertion that without knowledge (based upon theory), a hypothesis cannot be developed, hence, the the chicken again comes before the egg.

So... have we answered that question.... or do I have a headache for nothing??? :D

I love these little mental exercises first thing in the morning.... Thanks Al!!

Send your tax deductable contributions to the BMANPF... a very worthwhile organization... (Buy Mike A New Porche Fund) :D

Cheers!!!

Bingo,

The egg (hypothesis/possibility) cannot come before the chicken (theory/reality).

Somewhay along the lines of the law of identity:

A thing is what it is, you can call coffe mug anything you want, but when it comes to basics it is a coffee mug.

A=A
B=B

and language is no barrier, just a different form of expression.

If it is not too clear, I read Ayn Rand.

Here’s my three cents worth.
I never had a plan. I wasn’t led by any particular force to strive to become a Quality Geek. The oldest boy of a family of nine, I wanted to complete High School and enlist in the Armed Forces. For sure, I’m one the most senior posters in the Cove. There was no such thing as “Quality” oriented courses to prepare one for the path to a Quality Control career. After 4 years on active duty, working in Naval Aviation, I sought employment in a local helicopter manufacturing facility. I know I’ve posted some of this before, but so what? The hiring personnel person saw something, I still don’t know what, and started me as a fuselage/airframes Inspector. Reading the manuals, learning to interpret blueprints and procedures, I managed to advance to various Inspection positions throughout the plant learning all I could. No plan, just doing.

My supervisors were just there with no input, other than monitor your attendance and conduct performance reviews. Were they instrumental in drafting the procedures I was working to? Don’t know. Didn’t care. When asked a question, their standard answer was “What would you do?” After telling them, they would say “Sounds good to me, do it.” Was that the beginning of thinking that I could do that job? Maybe so.

Changing employment, through no choice of my own, I started as an Inspector again. Then, there was Chief Inspector, Quality Control Supervisor, Quality Control Manager, Senior Quality Engineer and Quality Assurance Manager. Don’t even ask me the difference. To me, there was none. The required discipline was, and is still there.

Was it dear old Dad, who never missed a day (outside of illness) in 35 years in his job? Was it respect for my fellow service personnel regardless of their “station”? If I had to point to any one thing, it would be that no matter what the title or position, I always listened and never demanded. I always asked for advice and quick to give praise where it’s due. No credit needed here. I already had the job.

Finally, I made it a point not to become like some pompous, arrogant QC/QA Managers (you know who you are) that had no respect from their subordinates, or anybody else for that matter because like the witch in Snow White, they exhibited the “the fairest of them all” complex. Working for a Prime Contractor, my exposure to these “elite” types from large corporations was often. I will admit, I dealt with them rather harshly. I had no respect for an empty suit that felt that they were the beginning and the end of all that meant Quality. They offered no recognition of the hard work and knowledge of the QA Engineers, QC Testers or Inspectors that reported to them. Everything was “I”, or “Me”. My inner resentment was probably a result of my background as such, but it still wasn’t right. Sadly, there was some sadistic glee in making them sweat, try that intellectual smoke screen and eventually having to go to a subordinate for information that they should have known. Where’s that soapbox?

So, I continue to practice my craft, knowing full well that by today’s standards, I’m sorely lacking in the pre-requisites to start over. The obstacles that one must conquer today to advance to this position are many. Most have nothing to do with the type of Manager you would eventually become. They are merely a filter to create someone in the mold of what is considered an acceptable candidate for such an important position by those that would force you to follow in their footsteps. Hey, it may be right! Maybe I was just lucky. Then again, maybe the bar has been raised just to match the egos.
:smokin:

Folks,

Could it be that the aspect of Psychology plays a larger role with Quality folks than it does in other areas (perhaps we are more knowledgeable in this area)? Energy’s comments strongly suggest such a connection.

Kev

Yep - gotta agree with Kevin on this one... Psychology plays a huge factor here.

Time for another operational definition (just so I don't get caught with my *** hanging out)... :p When I refer to Quality Professionals, I am referring to those of us (I hope I qualify for this category) who do their best to promote and enhance the theories of Quality Management.

Now... that being said... Psychology is vitally important to Quality Professionals. Not only do we have to be able to "win friends and influence people" so to speak; as change agents and leaders, we also must be keenly aware that our words and actions are constantly scrutinized by the people we work with. If we don't walk the talk, how can we expect those we work with to? The same is even more true for upper management. Unfortunately, I find many more of them lacking the committment.

I firmly believe that a good bit of my job is "cheerleading". Now, I'm not talking about the "rah rah" type of QA BS that can get spread around by unscrupulous quality people who are out to make a quick strike and then take the money and run for the hills. I'm talking about a genuine interest in every individual on the shop floor - taking time out each day to say "hi" and ask how they are doing, making mental notes about their family, their problems, their joys - and asking about them. If you are genuine about this (and it is easy to spot a phony) you can see a significant change in peoples' attitudes, self esteem and motivation.

Case-in-point... when I was filling in briefly for a floor supervisor (a previous job) I had a tow-motor operator who's father was gravely ill. Every day or so, I made it a point to ask about his father and to make sure he knew that he had whatever he might need - time off, someone to talk to, whatever. This certainly created a hardship for the shift - he was a key player. Not only that, his wife was also a machine operator on the shift - so it was not just one person, but two, who impacted operations. Well, his father passed away. After he came back from bereavement leave, he came to see me and told me that he appreciated everything I had done for him & his family - the time off without hassle and the peace of mind concerning his job. Here was a dedicated, hard working employee who would be willing to go the extra mile for the plant.

So, in my mind, in order to work in this profession and be good at your job - you have to have a genuine concern and care for your fellow employees. Why else would we put up with the stuff we do? It certainly ain't the money... :rolleyes:

Cheers!!

Michael T.

You're my kind of Manager, or whatever title you go by. It's virtually impossible to come down off that self imagined high horse and mingle with the troops for those who hold themselves on high. I could never climb up on something I couldn't see in the first place. I know this will draw flak, but, my schooling never focused on the distinction between us and them!:eek: Keep on truckin!:ko: :smokin:

Outstanding Mike,

Isn't that what it is all about! My hats off to you, you serve the profession well.

Mike,

Maybe you could share your secret on getting paid...this pro bono stuff is killing me:biglaugh: !

Kevin

Thanks guys! You make days like today almost worth while... I won't bore you with trivial details - just call it upper management troubles... :( If I'm not totally gray by the time I'm 40, I'll be surprised. :biglaugh:

Kev - I sure wish I had a secret to share... It feels like pro bono to me some days... :p At least with pro bono work, somebody is somewhat grateful for the effort...

Cheers!!!

Originally posted by Michael T
If I'm not totally gray by the time I'm 40, I'll be surprised.


Gray sounds good to me!!:biglaugh: :smokin:

Energy,

I'm with you, I'd take gray over skin tone any day. It's always surprises me how fast the top of the head can get such a sunburn in such a short time.

For years I thought Vitalis was sun block!

40 sounds good to me!

Alf

:biglaugh: Stop it!! You guys are killing me!!! :biglaugh:

How am I supposed to maintain a really crappy attitude with this kind of levity?!?! :p

Thanks for the laughs... I needed that today. Unfortunately, it will be interesting to see what happens first... the tonsured look or really gray hair. (Both have started) :ko:

Cheers!!!

Michael,

Many of us of the female persuasion find grey VERY attractive.

My husband just turned 41 and is almost completely grey, and I love it!!!

CarolX:bigwave:

Now... y'all see there - Carol sure knows how to make a guy's day... :D Thanks Carol!! :biglaugh:

I sure hope it has a chance to go gray before it goes away... :eek:

Carol - what would a 21 year old profesional Quality Manager find attractive about a greying 41 year old man??

(forgive me - I couldn't help myself) :D

After reading through this thread - I guess I have all the bases covered

Almost totally - what hair there is is white and WAY over 40.

Maybe that's part of the criteria for a Q Manager - Being around long enough to have seen most of the possible misteaks happen at least once ?? Right after I turned 50 I decided that when I fall down the ground has gotten a little harder as I get older - that's cause all of those others have been walking around on it and packing it down. :biglaugh:

Originally posted by Jim Biz
what would a 21 year old profesional Quality Manager find attractive about a greying 41 year old man??


Wow!! and I thought I was a silver tounged devil... :ko: That was truly impressive, Jim. Is that also part of the criteria for being a Q Manager? :smokin:

Cheers!!

Just reading some of thephilosophical thoughts on a slow afternoon and came upon the expression "common sense". To me that expression is the root of many misunderstandings in the world. When someone tells me that I used "common sense", all it means is that I did something the way that person would have done it. If I didn't do it the way the person would have, it means to him that I didn't use "common sense". Everyone thinks that he is using common sense when he performs a task; why would you not?

Hi John,

Welcome to the Cove.

When someone uses the term "common sense", I immediately think of an old axiom I heard somewhere that goes, "If common sense were common, everyone would have it." Unfortunately, not everyone does. You are absolutely right, though... everyone thinks he or she is using common sense when doing anything. Only when the process seems logical and agreed upon by several people does it magically become "common sense". It also can become something else, "Group Think" which can be very dangerous. (The Bay of Pigs debacle comes to mind) :eek:
BTW, what is that thing you were talking about... "slow afternoon"? Never heard of one of those. Are they something new and where could I buy one? :bonk: :biglaugh: :smokin:

Cheers!!

Michael,

Thank you for the welcome and your thoughts.

Regarding "slow afternoon", you have a point. Actually, I guess that it was my brain that was slow and I really couldn't get into doing what I should have been doing.

Take care.