I am wondering if any one has ever seen a list/matrix/scribbles on a napkin that reccomends the number of internal auditos a company should have (ie: 1 internal auditor per 15 employees.) It's much easier to push things through around here if I have something in writing.:cool:

I waited for over two years to gain semi-official input for the same question...... It seems to be one of those that is of a varying opinion depending on who you talk to..

Marc would "most likley" tell you -- there is no set standard number of "INTERAL" auditors required or even suggested -- And many discussions here at the Cove about the definition of who an Internal auditor can be - we use our outside consultants staff in a pinch.

Our last External auditor however offered "the opinion" that for 185 employees 5 to 6 trained ACTIVE internal auditors would be what she would consider adequate..

If my math is correct that would make - 1 per each 30 or 35 employees. As a general opinion/suggestion.

Just for some numbers, we have about 1,000 employees and 2 full-time internal auditors (I finally got back-up), with 16 others trained to help us part-time. The part-time auditors each typically participate in 2-4 audits per year. Keep in mind that we full-timers also spend a lot of time investigating and writing procedures, doing employee training, twisting arms, etc.:(

Alf

First and foremost, let me say that the audit program/schedule must be implemented, maintained, and kept on schedule. So if you're having trouble holding it together due to resource problems, then clearly you need more auditors. Registrars will look at this - of course.

Second, and of little consequence, the type of indutry, product, etc. plays a big part in determining auditor:employee ratios. I find in service industry environments (and I'm talking auditing as an extra job for people here) a trained auditing pool of about 8-10% is required, with an active force of 5%. Lower than this and you risk losing them through over work - too many audits. So the better question relates to how many auditors do I need to perform 35 x 1 hour audits per year? Auditors need to do at least 2 per year to keep their hand in, and generally no more than 5. Quality dept type people can do extra/more to fill all the audits.

NOTE: it also depends on the number of departments, geographical locations of sites, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I have seen a few suggestions and will look in my files to see if I still have the info. The best plan is based on the schedule of audits, "Am I getting them done on time?" If "No", you may need more. We have over 300 under one roof people and have 8 from various departments including floor employees

Hi,
Few years ago, our manpower is 160 and we have three internal auditors. And now we almost double the size, were 259 now and now we have 18 healthy internal auditors.
I think there's no specific number of auditors, as long as when that auditors audit, document what they are doing. I think that's fine.
Hope this helps,
Raffy

:bigwave:
I agree........... our external auditor has never specified a number of auditors per number of employee....

My company has aprox ~90 employees and we have 6 internal auditors. I just made sure that we had at least one person from each department so that all audits can be objective. Also find this helps increase Quality Awareness within each department, as this can be a problem. :(

Hi,
That was great, having at least one per department with 18 healthy auditors including 4 in QA department. I make sure that plenty in QA, we don't want to happen someone would leave the department without any replacement.

Raffy

Originally posted by Jim Biz

Marc would "most likley" tell you -- there is no set standard number of "INTERAL" auditors required or even suggestedYup. And there are lots of discussions here on various aspects of internal auditing...

Just my opinion. I would say train as many people as you can. Not only is it good experience but as ISO Chick stated it helps increase Quality Awarness, if they see how it relates to thier jobs they will then understand the importance of a quality system.

There is no need for "internal" auditors. Hire the function out and save the headaches.

Hiring out is becoming more popular. Who knows maybe the registrars will have a seperate division to do this.

We trained 38 internal auditors and worked with them till they were able to lead an audit team. Once we built their confidence, 23 of them took jobs as auditors with other companies.

Oh well, live and learn.

Dave

Originally posted by D.Scott
We trained 38 internal auditors and worked with them till they were able to lead an audit team
Dave

Dave,

Your company trained 38 Internal Auditors? Were these people just Auditors? Did they have other skills? I can't imagine anyone hiring someone because thay were trained to be an Internal Auditor for another company. I don't doubt what you say, but there are no want ads in this state for "Auditors". RAB Certified, maybe. :smokin:

There a few companies in our area that have auditors that are full time and audit internally and externally.

We are a company of approx 700, with 30 trained internal auditors with an additional 4 auditors in training. :D All auditors are trained in QS & EMS. Approx 60% of the auditors are associates from the shop floor.

Monthly auditing schedules include process audits, procedure audits, audits of selected elements and verification of CARS and improvement opportunities. I find that with a force of 30 it gives me the opportunity to juggle the auditors around thus avoiding burn-out.

Participation as an auditor continues to grow and flurish at our company, one of the ways it works for us is through team building. I work the auditing process as a team, the auditors results are taken seriously no matter how trivial. All improvements CARS & observations are tracked and followed up on at each subsequent internal audit until successfully closed.

Close meetings are conducted after each audit with all senior managers & key dept managers in attendance. As management rep I open and close the meetings but allow my auditors to take the lead and report out on their audit findings.

Hi Everyone,
What we need is to train personnel especially in internal audit so that it would help the company site nonconformance to continually improve.
Raffy