Subject: Reply to Mgt. Respon. Question
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:11:06 -0400
From: "ISO 9000:2000"
To: "Discuss9000"

October 1, 1999

News: General Motors and Ford Motor Company have both announced last week that all manufacturing suppliers (tier 1) have to comply with ISO 14001. Ford Suppliers have until June 2003, GM suppliers have until December 2002. Please note that we have updated and greatly expanded the ISO 14000 information on our web site available to the public ***DEAD LINK REMOVED*** More 14k material to come later.

I had heard that Ford was going to require suppliers to be compliant to ISO14000, but to me I find it interesting that Chrysler is not requiring it (yet). Especially with their European influence, I thought Chrysler would be right up front. I wonder if there will customer-specific requirements for this standard (as for TS16949)? Anyway, I expect this forum to pick up speed!!

How about refreshing me on the Tier levels.

This could be interesting for me personally. My present employer has business segments that I know manufactures components for auto industry.

Tier I sells direct to big3
Tier II sells to customer who sells to big3.

Have anyone heard about Ford,s requirement about their supplier to get not only QS9000 but also ISO 14001?

In the Ford-specific requirements section of the QSR manual, it says Ford suppliers are not required to pursue 3rd party registration to QS-9000. When did this change?

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 05 March 2000).]

I always heard Ford required "compliance" not registration to QS. But they had a deadline..not just working towards.

Well - yeah. You have to have QOS and a plan for QS. Havta have a plan and havta be followin' the plan 'within reason'.

I think the Ford requirement for ISO14001 compliance is world-wide.

I just read on the Quality Digest website that GM also announced the ISO14000 compliance requirements for all its suppliers. Here we go again!

I've heard that FORD's supplier need to register for QS9000 in the year 2000, but ISO14000 no exactly due date.

So surprised that GM requires ISO14000, too.
Is this a 'shall' or 'should' or 'recommend'?

Ford will require manufacturing suppliers to conform to ISO14001 by 1 July 2003.

GM has set a deadline of 31 December 2002 for its suppliers and their own facilities (or so they say).

I think the other Ford ISO14001 registration requirement is that you have to have one faciltiy registered by the end of 2001. GM's requirement, I think, is to have all facilities compliant (not necessarily registered) by Dec 2002. I don't think GM is requiring any registrations to ISO14001, just compliance. Also, Chrylser has not come out with anything on ISO14001 yet.

What does this mean to tier 2 suppliers?

Also-will NACD Responsible care or NPCA Coatings Care requirements be acceptable alternatives, since they track very closely to ISO-14000?

Only Tier 1 are required as of now, but the others should start looking into 14K themselves.

What I find immensely humorous is that ISO 14001 doesn't even garner a sniff of the OSHA Standards to which we are (allegedly) following...

Do the Big 3 just want to force us to spend money on whatever the hell whim strikes them in a given year?

I am almost half expecting them to come out with "ISO 14001 + some extra stuff that the Big 3" want, just so they can generate some more income having to make purchases from the AIAG...

...then they'll follow with sanctioned interpretations and the like...

...what a racket.

ALM

Interesting point. With QS9000 going the way of ISO16949, AIAG has to justify it's existance, don't they? Let's all say it together now... QS14000!

Ah! QS-14000! Another automotive forum!

Relax....pals. Let's think like an optimist. After you pay some grand for the system, you get some cent back.

Oops...i did it again...(the 100th time this week....LOL) i wasn't complaining or venting...i was just joking around that i need to slow down...I really do...i am ready for a horse and buggy week..... Nothing to do with the standard...sorry if i sounded bitchy....

Don't apologize Barb, We all have weeks like that.
I just figured it out...if I take every class that AIAG offers (no matter what it is) I should be COMPLETELY prepared for what ever the big 3 comes up with. Or they could just combine all of the programs and call it
ISO/QS/TS 16949900012342000...whatcha think?

Good Lord,

All these numbers you guys keep spouting is starting to make my head spin and give me Exedrin headache #292.

I thought I had a bunch to keep up with trying to comply with 29CFR, 40CFR, 49CFR, 10CFR, 8CCR, 22CCR, Army Regulations, Post Regulations, Corporate crap, and all the other stuff in the EHS realm.

You guys got it tuff.

Just read all the comments and thought I'd throw this in: my co-workers and I have heard that Ford told its suppliers that to qualify for Q1 status, they have to be QS-9000 registered.

Where did you folks 'hear' this?

Ford Venezolana told us, about requeriments to be a supplier.
one of the requeriments is that we have to have a certified QS9k company.

they ask us this requeriment in verbal form.

Elberth:

Did they mention a requirement for ISO14001 compliance or registration?

Nope
but they have and important internal "campaign" to complaince it

I have not any experience with the OEM's but I have demands from Tier 1 to be ISO 14001 registered.
I have been told by a company in England that I cannot be A status without ISO 14001.
A company in Portugal reduces my supplier evaluation because of lack of ISO 14001. A non automotive customer, electronics telecomunications in Israel has demanded at least adhetrence to their enviromental policy.
We will all not be able to ignore this for too long.

I've heard that Japanese companies need their supplier to compliance with ISO14000. The business with no registered supplier will be terminated someday in Y2000, especially SONY Group.

I'm not so wondered that EU country requires ISO14000, we'd better awared of BS8800.

No doubt that the ISO14001 train is rolling and you'd better hop on the train or get off the tracks (wow, where did that come from?)! By the way, Dewie, what is BS8800?

Dewie has finally put the last peice of the puzzle together. BS8800 is of course the safety standard in Britain, which was used, amongst numerous other standards, to create OHSAS 18000.
Please let me point out something soooo obvious that you've all missed it. 9K + 14K + 18K = 41K, and as we all know 41 is the answer to life, the universe and everything.
What's that I here you say, it's 42, not according to the ISO 41K Standard!

------------------

David you have reason, I´m very impacient of release of 41 or 42K

I had read somewhere that Chrysler was also requiring ISO 14000 registration. I will have to check my sources.

------------------
Pete Maizitis
Lead Auditor

Ford and GM have set dates for compliance for teir 1& 2 suppliers....think its 2001, 2002...or maybe 2002, 2003....I have forgotten.....but the suppliers seem to be ignoring it, hoping it will go away (at least in my area)...Its alive and "out there" no question it will happen, registrars are talking it up...but there is so little real experience in this country....that companies seem to have their heads in the sand..so much controversy and resistance......

People seem to forget it is the one standard that actually pays for itself. Problem is, consultants tend to not know how to do it. Implementing 14k is backward to 9k, to do it properly.....Identification/recognition/measures of the current status are key...and so often overlooked. Having seen the UK approach, and comparing it to the US was an eye-opener for me...they are light years ahead of us.

Originally posted by barb butrym:

Ford and GM have set dates for compliance for teir 1& 2 suppliersIs this written anywhere or hearsay?

Whoa, Barb, did you mean Tier 2 as well as Tier 1? I'm with Marc, here. Is it written anywhere, especially about the Tier 2 (that's me!)about compliance? I think someone here may have posted or, at least, told us where the compliance letter (for Ford and GM) was available.

A conversation with my registrar 'subject matter expert' at a dinner meeting was my source. He tells me it has been mandated....although I did not see the letter myself. The discussion was about consultancy projects and he was to provide a colleague of mine with the details/documents .......(as he is doing 14k projects) and he (my colleague) could use these to pitch sales....the 'expert' was surprised the consultant was not totally ovrwhelmed with work by now.

So there you have it..... psuedo hearsay. I totally trust the guy, and take what he says as true.....he hasn't steered me wrong yet. AND he is 'IN' at Ford. My colleague is at Ford this week ...... and when he gets back I will check that out in more detail.....

CAN U PLEASE DEFINE BRIEFLY WHAT ISO14001 IS AND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO AN AUTOMOTIVE COMPANY.

Hi Khan,

OK let me just briefly give you in a nutshell what ISO 14000 is.

"What are ISO's Environmental Management Standards (ISO 14000)?
ISO's Environmental Standards (EMS) are a series of voluntary standards and guideline reference documents which include environmental management systems, eco-labeling, environmental auditing, life cycle assessment, environmental performance evaluation, and environmental aspects in product standards. The focus on management" distinguishes these standards from performance" standards.
EMS help and organization to establish and meet its own policy goals through objectives and targets, organizational structures and accountability, management controls and review functions all with top management oversight. EMS do not set requirements for environmental compliance nor do these standards establish requirements for specific levels of pollution prevention or performance. The Environmental Management Systems specification document calls for environmental policies which include a commitment to both compliance with environmental laws
and prevention of pollution."
USA-EPA

The above just about states it as simply as possible...

Right now the importance to not only the automotive industry, but to all others is simply this...MONEY.

ISO 14000 can be utilized to emphasize an organizations committment to protecting the environment ---- diminished potential liabilities in environmental regulation violations, re-designed processes promoting the minimization of waste by-products resulting in cost savings, broadening the market base of potential customers who are environmentally conscious.

Remember the word---M O N E Y.......that's why.

If you look at this months "Business Standards" magazine from BSI, you will find an article about Ford, GM and ISO 14000.

Hi .... I'm back .....
Still nothing from Chrysler but firm commitments from Ford and GM. If you are a member of ASQ I would suggest getting on subscription for their Automotive Excellence publication although the last issue was disappointing as it did not touch on what I would perceive to be on everyone's minds .... ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 14001. The Winter Edition published the following:
Ford: "Ford will require all production and non-production suppliers with manufacturing facilities to certify a minimum of one manufacturing site to ISO 14001 standard by December 31, 2001. Ford will require supplier manufacturing sites to be certified to ISO 14001 standard by July 1, 2003.”
GM: “By the end of 2002, GM will require its suppliers to certify the implementation of environmental systems (EMS) in their operations, in conformance with ISO 14001. It is our intent that all suppliers to General Motors implement an environmental management system by December 31, 2002.”
Unfortunately, none of my GM supplier clients has been officially notified by GM on this requirement.
Has anyone seen an official communiqué through NAO Worldwide Purchasing or elsewhere?


------------------
Pete Maizitis
Lead Auditor

I have heard rumors centered around the Big Three mandating compliance and/or registration to ISO 14K. Does anyone have any recent information or sources to verify any of this?

We've been officially informed by Jaguar Cars (Ford) that we MUST be ISO14000 registered by the end of 2001.

Last Fall GM & Ford gave timelines for ISO 14000 conformance for their Tier 1 suppliers. Apparently GM will accept self delaration.

Did anyone take a look at the site on this last post.

I was going to get the free CD Demo but the download took too long.

As anybody got the CD?

PPS Beware. After registering on this site i received three automatic generated E mails in the space of the enxt 60 minutes.

Regards

------------------
Andy B

[This message has been edited by Andy Bassett (edited 19 July 2000).]

Andy I got all the Emails too.

The program looks interesting. I've had to request a copy of the CD and may purchase it.

check
“Worldwide suppliers required to achieve ISO 14001 Certification”, (2000), (Ford Motor Company), Available: http://www.ford.com/default.asp?pageid=72&storyid=663

At at recent Environmental lunch seminar put on by Motorola here in So. Florida, they [Motorola] stated that Ford was definitely requiring ISO 14001 but how deep in tiers they intended was not clear.
What was interesting though is that Motorola has generated an internal standard that addresses all of the ISO 9000 and all of the applicable federal OSHA requirements and they claim that it clearly satifies the requirements of ISO 14001.
I am currently trying to get a copy to review and will forward one to anyone desiring once I get it.

Today I received a letter from the VP of Supplier Quality at DC, dated 10/5/00.

This letter states that effective January 1, 2003, "DaimlerChrysler will require its suppliers to be third party registered to an environmental management system based on ISO-14001."

Me too! Got the letter on Saturday. They gave us until the end of 2002.

Michael

I have a letter from DaimlerChrysler dated Oct. 5/00 it reads:

Effective January 1, 2003, DaimlerChrysler will require its suppliers to be third party registered to an environmental management system based on ISO 14001.

I have heard that the Big 3 have or will sometime in the future require registration to the requirements of ISO-14000.
Does anyone have info on this. I haven't seen anything in writing.
The standard presently allows " a self-determination and self-declaration of conformance with the internationaal standard".

GM is apparently buying off on self declaration. The others (Ford, Chrysler) want 3rd party registration. Old news. Check their web sites or look in the archives here.

Hi everyone good day to ya'll. I have two questions to ask.

1. My company is ISO 14001 certified in addition to QS 9000. We are a Tier one supplier to the big three and then some. My question is: Is there a memo, document or anything from the big three (3) that states registration / certification to ISO 14001 is a must. I looked up the AIAG site but found nothing. Is there a web site I can go to?? Reaon for this question is the higher ups (it's always them) want to scrap the program.

2. Can I get samples of good flowcharts to guide me in establishing PPAP requirements. One from a Supplier's point of view and one from a customer's point of view. Naturally I do not have a budget nor have I had any training except I have read the PPAP manual.

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If you're a Tier 1 supplier to the Big 3 you ought to already have all the documentation you need. This issue was addressed by the back in '99 when they told all their Tier 1's to do this. There is a pretty good trail of the discussions we had here in the Forum archives I think. Just search back to 1999 and follow what we said then.

I can tell you this though. If your top guys want to quit 14K to save money or make it easy tell them to forget getting money from those other guys. Ford has stated in no uncertain terms. No 14K-No moola. The others are about the same. Oh yeah to varying degrees so are the Japanese, Koreans, Germans and most of the rest of the civilized industrial world of automakers. Either get in the boat or learn to tread water. There are probably other companies waiting in the wings to fill your spot.

What never ceases to amaze me is how when people get to the TOP they automatically become smarter or sharper businessmen through osmosis, or the water, or through the crak they share in the boys room.

Tell them peeing and moaning about 14K with the Big 3 is a dead horse that doesn't need to be beaten anymore.:bigwave:

JMMHO:)

Here is what we are telling folks about the Big Three Requirements:

Ford
•At least one manufacturing site from each production and non-production supplier must be third-party registered by December 31, 2001, and all manufacturing sites shipping products by July 1, 2003
General Motors
•All suppliers must implement an EMS by December 31, 2002 that is third-party certified or self-certified through a written declaration by a responsible executive. Third- party confirmation is strongly preferred.
DaimlerChrysler
•All suppliers must be third-party registered to an EMS based on ISO 14001 by January 1, 2003. The requirements of the EMS do not need to be established independently of the Quality Management System.

Hope it helps. Also, we have used ISO 14K to "find" real dollars in customer operations! In many cases, it more than paid for the effort.

There you go Kenen, db (whoever that is) has given you the straight dope.

Hi db :bigwave:

Latest letter from Ford dated Oct. 15/01 reads:

"As an interim checkpoint, all suppliers were requested to third-party at least one of their sites by December 21, 2001."

Q1-2002 establishes IS014001 as a requriement. Effective February 1, 2002, ISO 14001 certification is required to obtain Q1 first time approval or re-instatement following a revocation, and effective July 1, 2003, IS014001 certification is requried to maintain Q1 status.

OK..I'm providing a copy of the GM news release requiring 14K, now where can I get copies of all the others quoted in this thread.:confused:

I really, really, really need them.:(

What's the latest, folks?

Apparently the only OEM specifically requiring ISO 14001 certification is Ford (as part of Q1). I believe that GM and DC allow suppiers to opt out of ISO 14001 if they are TS registered.

So the press releases previously quoted in this thread have either been recinded or were not actually implemented.

Anybody heard anything else?

Apparently the only OEM specifically requiring ISO 14001 certification is Ford (as part of Q1). I believe that GM and DC allow suppiers to opt out of ISO 14001 if they are TS registered.

So the press releases previously quoted in this thread have either been recinded or were not actually implemented.

Anybody heard anything else?


I have not heard that either GM or DCX has rescinded the requirement. They have the option to waive it on a case by case basis.

I have not heard that either GM or DCX has rescinded the requirement. They have the option to waive it on a case by case basis.

I have not heard that either. We are a supplier to all 3 and specifically with GM we have to ensure they have our updated certificate listed on GQTS.

Ford - ISO 14001 required in Q1

DCX - ISO 14001 required under Quality Management System Requirements as stated in ISO 14001 Environmental Certification Letter

GM - ISO 14001 required in Environmental Statement of Requirements

I know GM & Daimler Chrysler, great system of ISO actually in ISO/TS 16949 and now, registration ISO 14001........WOW, IT'S AMAZING !! To Apply after get down the market.

Anybody know if GM, Ford or Chrysler have recinded or changed their requirements for suppliers to be ISO 14001 3rd party certified? The attached letter from the AIAG outlined the original requirement for certification.

With all the recent turmoil/upset in the industry, several of our automotive supplier clients have decided to drop 3rd party ISO 14001 certification as a cost savings measure.

Anybody know if GM, Ford or Chrysler have recinded or changed their requirements for suppliers to be ISO 14001 3rd party certified? The attached letter from the AIAG outlined the original requirement for certification.

With all the recent turmoil/upset in the industry, several of our automotive supplier clients have decided to drop 3rd party ISO 14001 certification as a cost savings measure.

You need to look here (http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/).

It is still a requirement. Dropping ISO 14001:2004 certification may affect their automotive supplier status.

Stijloor.

I know GM & Daimler Chrysler, great system of ISO actually in ISO/TS 16949 and now, registration ISO 14001........WOW, IT'S AMAZING !! To Apply after get down the market.

Actually, they set the requirement by letter years ago...

I don't see anything on the IATF site that mentions ISO 14001 is an OEM requirement. Maybe I just didn't find it - can you provide a specific reference/URL?

I included the original AIAG letter from 2003 discussing ISO 14001 certification deadlines in my previous post. Have there been subsequent communications from AIAG/IATF/OEMs?
My understanding is that Ford Q1 status requires ISO 14001 certification (because a supplier cannot accumulate enough points to achieve Q1 status without the points allocated for ISO 14 certification). However, a supplier can still sell to Ford, even if they are not Q1, so technically ISO 14001 is not a mandatory requirement.
Any additional help you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks