As one who has been in this field way too long, I have worked where there was a strict dress code-with "summer attire" rules and other places where a "t" shirt and jeans and sneakers were acceptable. My question is this: Do you think dressing "up" makes anybody work better? Is it for your performance or does it allow you to get more respect from your subordinates? I'm sure that there are a lot of "tie" wearers in the Cove. Besides being considered normal attire for office workers, I'm curious about the motive. Any knowledge out there regarding the origin or intent? Incidentally, we have a relaxed dress code here, but when visitors show up, you have "sport casual" as a minimum. And, why's that? Is it all perception? Of what? Does it help the Quality of the product? :confused: :smokin:

The tie thing is a carry-over of the neckerchief (spelling may be off). The neckerchief originated in France during the late middle ages and was used as a repository for perfumes to disguise the smell and to keep the smell away of unwashed bodies.

Mid-19th century Europe adapted the tie as a re-finement and it was established (especially in Victorian England)to be un-businesslike and low class not to wear one. America followed suit (no pun intended).

In the late 60's remember, a tie identified one as being part of the "establishment" so business casual evolved.

The wearing of a tie today is strictly (as far as I'm concerned)a matter of perception. "If its gotta a tie on, it must be a professional under it". Also ties have become a symbol of power, position and status in many organizations as well as to the public in general. "If he wears a tie to work he has to be important".

It kind of follows along the lines of a marketing strategy. "Put the product in a fancy wrapper, regardless of its contents, and some fool will buy it".:bigwave:

From the viewpoint of a long-time plant person who only recently got an official office in the office....

Super dressy offices seem to put up perceived barriers between departments.
Casual but professional seem to pull the barriers down, aid in allowing interaction between the "us and them"
Super casual starts to lose professionalism and respect.

Me, the closest I've been to a "tie" is how I fasten my earplugs to my hardhat, and dress shoes is when I get to wear my steel toed boots that don't have the external metatarsal guards.:biglaugh: Honestly, I have a lot more respect for the condition the clothing is in (clean and well-kept) than how much it cost, and whether or not the wearer is willing to jump in and do what needs to be done without worrying about a $1500 dollar suit.

Interesting topic.

You should have done a poll!

My vote is Perception. Get your Sunday Suit on son! :thedeal:

Randy,

Nice tie history.:biglaugh: I've seen them with big mustard stains and dried beans on them.

SteelMaiden..Us and them? Barriers? Hmmmmm! I've noticed that. When I was "wearing", I was called Sir and Mr. When I wore my jeans and sneakers and visited a Supplier, they looked all around the reception area looking for the "Customer". When they saw just me, they looked beyond me to see if this "important" person may be hiding.

That's why I posted this topic. I've always have a problem with "suits". It's the PERSON in the suit that I'm talking to.

Sometimes the absence of a suit by one of the parties leads to an immediate assumption that the person sans the suit is somehow inferior and subject to some disdain!:ko:

Recently, my attire concerned a V.P. (sneakers and jeans) who was expecting a big potential customer. Being a team player, I drove the 22 miles home to fetch my big Jim Biz Horse Tie.. with the studded sequins on the horseshoe around his neck. Just kidding. The gentlemen showed up wearing jeans and sneakers. They were from a Powerplant Operation. So we all sat there spiffied up like clowns. The CEO apologized to the Customer for making everybody overdress. All this crap over clothes. It has nothing to do with what they wanted and what we were going to provide. It's just a shame that we have been conditioned to relate a tie and/or jacket to importance.

Steel, Dale Evans wore a tie!:biglaugh: :smokin:

When I am visited by a sales rep or suppliers rep, image means a lot to me. If he/she took the time to put on a dress/suit & tie, I "feel" important to them. It is all part of an image to creat a relationship. That is how business is done. When a rep comes in with a t-shirt and jeans, well I know his/her priorities are NOT my needs. All about image, folks!

CarolX

Good subject Bill:

My vote is Level of dress matters in the area of - "Respect"

Not from the attitude that you want to get respect from a contact - but from the viewpoint of "if I go to the trouble to dress up for you" that means I do in fact have a certain amount of respect for who you are and your abilities.

The Red Power Tie & Blue Suit is the uppermost level of respect - a clean "Sport casual" attire in todays context Yes - I have a medium to high level amount of respect for the people I deal with. Shorts/ gymshoes/tee shirts with logo's all over them - I don't respect myself or anyone that I come in contact with.

(As a side note - My favorite "horse tie" is not a tie at all but a solid gold tie-tack that is in the shape of a horses behind (tail included) - small enough that a person really hasta look close to recognize what it is)

Originally posted by CarolX
When a rep comes in with a t-shirt and jeans, well I know his/her priorities are NOT my needs. All about image, folks!
CarolX

Hi Carol,

Customers wear what they want.:biglaugh: It only matters if you're in the Driver's seat. Would you think less of a Customer who poo poo'd wearing formal attire? Maybe so, but it wouldn't affect your doing business with THEM!:smokin:

Bill,

Remember, the customer is ALWAYS right (at least when you are face to face with them...LOL).


I think Jim summed up what I was trying to say...it is about respect.

Just my $.05 worth!!!

CarolX

Jim Carol (and the others). I do like the respect thing. Well put. Like Marc said, I'll just have to "Put on your Sunday Suit, Mutton Head!" (or something like that) :biglaugh:

I remember back in my Copper days that people would show more respect/preference to a Detective (same rank as a Patrolman) in a coat & tie than to a Captain (me) in a uniform. It was all about perception. They thought I was a 'regular' cop and that the plain clothes guys were in charge.

The news media was the best of the lot. When I would try to assist them I would be ignored for the plain clothes guys. What was I supposed to know? I was in uniform.;)

Talk about eggg on the face when people found out who really made the decisions:biglaugh:

This didn't only happen to me, it's happened to others.

Clothing and dress have meaning in our culture. There is no escaping it, and it will endure.

> Sometimes the absence of a suit by one of the parties
> leads to an immediate assumption that the person sans the
> suit is somehow inferior and subject to some disdain!

I think this happens, but if the group is 'real', it won't make a diffrence as long as the business gets done. Heck - every time I walk down the street I know there's someone who sees me and thinks "...hey - what a fatty..." or something. Some people won't go to class reunions because they're afraid they'll be looked down upon because they didn't 'make it big'. I guess I couldn't care less what people think (and there's much evidence of that in these forums) and I would venture to say you don't either, really, energy.

I have been in the same situation - when I'm in doubt I over dress. But - I believe there is a perception issue and whether coat and tie or jeans it doesn't matter to me except that I take my 'good' clothes to the cleaners for a good press job so it costs.

To me, the perception issue of importance is one of professionalism. When I interviewed at Motorola I wore a suit. I shined my shoes and such as well. When I got the contract and was there in the offices I wore a tie and sports jacket because that was their 'facility norm'. When I met with the head honcho I wore a coat and tie. When on the floor I wore 'medium' clothes, but no tie - clothes can inhibit people and I need to be able to communicate with them. When in the fabs - well, we all wore the 'space suits' so there was no issue in so far as clothes, but people still saw us as 'special' because we weren't part of the regular team. Sometimes, you can't win for loosing.

At a Borg-Warner job, other than the initial meeting, I always wore jeans and old shirts with no tie. They processed powered metals (scintering) and then forged the part to top it off. You couldn't even go in the offices without getting dirty. And - it was the plant norm.

I don't know - I don't think I would have apologised for being over dressed and making people feel uncomfortable. Maybe because I've been in so many 'mixed' meetings where people wore so many different things that what they're wearing doesn't concern me personally. I probably wouldn't have thought of anyone being uncomfortable. I thought only girls coordinated stuff like what everyone will we all be wearing and that was years ago. I only see 1 'black tie' invitation a year any more and last year many of the fellas just wore suits instead of tuxes. The year before only a couple did. The RSVP clearly states Black Tie...

All that said, how many folks have seen the old IBM dress standards from the 1950's and 1960's? Jeeeez.... What was it - dark blue or gray jacket and pants, white shirt, solid colour, thin-width, dark tie. I remember one fella's story of not being admitted to a meeting because he was wearing the 'wrong' color socks and (gasp!) no garter to hold them up! Old Ross Perot was the same in his organization - EDS (when he owned it).

We've come a long way! Be happy and don't let people who wear ties get to you... I think you're just looking for something to complain about! :thedeal:

took a class a LONG time ago on "non verbal communication and a very big part of it started with dress/style choice alone as a marker for "first impression" .

Don't remember the IBM codes - but do remember well that there was a private school here in the area that demanded black dress pants - white shirt daily - for guys - girls were allowed black skirt or blue plaid but white blouse long sleeved only.

The old (?) saying 'Clothes Makes the Man' bears more truth than many folks may like to believe in so far as perception goes. A doctor's smock in a hospital is a perception maker - it sets an 'attitude' in a person seeing that other person with the smock on. I spent year at a school in Britain where it was light gray pants, white shirt, school tie and blue blazer with school emblem on pocket. Every day. No exceptions. My little sister's school also had a 'uniform'. In my hippie days it was tie dye t-shirts and blue jeans with holes and patches (maybe a few bleach 'stains as well).

I see: "...realize that human value and intellectual aptitude can never be equated..."

I'm old enough to know better than to judge a person on the clothes they wear, but clothes (with consideration to the context - i.e.: a boardroom meeting vs. troubleshooting at a production line) will always influence my perception - at least when I first meet a person. As do many factors (tattoos, hair cut and style, shaved or not, shoes shined - all sorts of stuff. :thedeal:

Believe it or not, I once worked for an owner that all but banned suits and ties. He believed that the spoken word and performance were more important. I was with him when he walked into G.M. headquarters in Warren MI wearing a pair of dockers and a levi shirt. He came out with a contract and good reviews for his candor.

Casual, but not sloppy!

Good topic!!!! I believe that dress down days should be gone. As a customer(point of view)if I go into a company and the top management are not in suits and others in the office are not in ties,this gives me a bad first impression. I went to a company for an interview and the Pres.was in jeans and old shirt. I believe floor employees should be provided with uniforms. First impression is important. I guess I am old fashion. There good and bad companies, regardless of how they dress.

....when I need to and jeans (like today) for machine shops.

When GM went to dress down, unfortunately some people took it too far. I saw an 8th level manager in torn jeans. And everyone thought working on a Saturday meant you could dress in clothes that I wear to clean out my garage. But even in the "old days" with ties required, some people just threw a dirty tie on a wrinkled shirt. Bottom line, clean and pressed, whether its a suit, or khakis or denim, golf shirt, or sweater is appropriate. Unfortunately some people looked like an unmade bed no matter what the outfit is. It just makes sense that if you look sloppy, your work is probably sloppy. I had a closet full of "nice" clothes after dress down, and when I'd wear a suit people wondered where I was interviewing.

It all depends on the business. I know the admin folks at the school district still all wear suits. I haven't figured out if that's intimidating to teachers, or not. But I think for the public image its great. The public sector is different.

Originally posted by Randy
The wearing of a tie today is strictly (as far as I'm concerned)a matter of perception. "If its gotta a tie on, it must be a professional under it". Also ties have become a symbol of power, position and status in many organizations as well as to the public in general. "If he wears a tie to work he has to be important".


All good posts, but I think that Randy said it best. When you stand in the mirror and slap that tie on, you are putting on your "badge" that sets you apart from the rest of us non-achievers.:biglaugh: I'm talking employees everyday dress, not meeting customers or suppliers. And, if it's not a requirement in your workplace and you choose to wear it anyway, you have a motive. Not respect for your co-workers because of the special time you took to get ready to come to work. It's a reminder to them that you are special, even if it just the "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall" thing.

When I want the "facts" about anything, I ask the person who comes to work to work. Usually an Assembler, Electrician or an operator who doesn't normally have this fixation for the "uniform" and the "power trip".

I interviewed for a Quality Engineer position a few years back and was dressed to the max. The General Manager said "Nice Suit. A little over dressed for this place, though. In fact, you can get fired for wearing a tie around here." Then he laughed, we both did. He was looking past the suit. I have worked for him going on 10 years.
He dresses for potential customers and when the CEO insists he does. Other than that, you could not tell he was the GM. But, make no mistake about it, we all know who he is. No tie required.
My problem is with those that "think" that they can hide behind a tie to distract the viewer from what they are really thinking. Like, what a pompous ***!:smokin:

Personally, I'd rather do business with someone who is dressed sloppily that's a straight shooter than someone dressed to the max who thinks his **** don't stink.

I'm sorry, but to me clothes don't make the person. It's more important what's inside the head and heart. Does it really matter to you if I wear jeans and a tee shirt to sign a billion dollar contract with your company instead of a Armini(sp?) suit? Do I need to pretend I'm something I'm not just because someone perceives cloths as important?

And do you really judge a person by the first impression (clothes) he/she makes? Before he/she evens open their mouths, do you already feel slighted because they are not dressed up?

Now I'm not knocking anyone here, but I think it's time we all sit back and concentrate on whats important...what's inside those clothes.

As for me, very casual. As I sit here typing, just below my office mezzanine, there are two extruders processing wood flour. My suit would spend more time in the cleaners than on me. At least I think I own a suit. I'll have to look tomorrow.

Please don't take this wrong, but does it really matter?

Greetings all...

A very timely thread... we're going through this debate right now. Currently, all inside customer service personnel, managers, & VP's must wear appropriate attire... ties for men, and skirts or nice slacks for women. The management team is currently divided. Approx. half want to keep it this way, half want corporate casual (nice shirts w/company logo and Dockers (or similar slacks)). No jeans, no t-shirts. It is hotly contested.

When I was a Program Coordinator for a law school teaching Litigation Skills (practical trial exercises - aka putting the fins on those sharks... :biglaugh: ) we used to require all our students to wear dress clothes when doing their weekly mock trials. We found that students who wore dress clothes tended to perform better/more professionally than those who did not. If they felt the part of a lawyer, they acted the part of a lawyer.

Having served in the military, I have seen all the sides of this issue. Personally, I like the corp. casual look. It is smart and presents a neat and tidy appearance. When customers visit - dress appropriately - it makes a statement. But for everyday wear... I think comfortable gets more mileage.

Cheers!!!

Ken K - maybe that's why you have a bag on your head? :rolleyes:





I"M KIDDING.....don't want to start any fights...but...

1st impressions are important. I agree with casual as appropriate to the business. But sloppy doesn't cut it - I don't care what business your in. Tuck it in, iron it, and for god sakes take a shower and comb your hair. Probably (hopefully) most of us here fit that criteria! And yes, in order to get to the next step of doing business, I think first impressions count.

And frankly, some of my "dress pants" are cheaper than my jeans!

Originally posted by Laura M
comb your hair.
As I understand it, there are some people here who can't do this...:biglaugh: :ko: :vfunny: :bigwave::eek:

I thought we were tight;)

Laura,

The very drift of the topic from ties, suits, casual dress to sloppy unwashed creatures with uncombed hair points to that thing mentioned before. Perception. To some, anyone who doesn't meet a person's view of proper attire can be viewed as all the above without a stitch of truth to it. You're still a sweetie!:agree: :smokin:

Now Energy - whatever would make you think that I was referring to you? :rolleyes: :biglaugh: :ko:

You know what they say though... if the foo sh*ts... oops... that should be, shoe fits... :vfunny: :vfunny:

Is it Friday yet? :bonk:

Laura,

Since I would be generous in saying I could use a moustache (SP)
comb to do my hair, would to suggest Blue Coral or Turtle wax?:bigwave:

Heck, all I have to do is walk under a 60 watt bulb and my hair is styled!

You are right in taking it back to the original thread.

It is perception. But I've heard the saying that a person's perception is their reality. And the bottom line of what I was getting at was if a company institutes "business casual" then firm guidelines need to go with it. (Fashion police?):biglaugh:

As far as day to day work, then I agree that, if I'm "dressed" - I "feel" better about the work I'm doing. If you feel better about the work you are doing, then perhaps its better quality work. Is it like the Holiday Inn commercial - you "feel" smarter? It may not be true for everybody - it's a part of the 'dress for success' theory I guess - look and feel confident.

This of course only counts when your are interacting with people. Since I do alot of work at home, then a flannel nightgown and uncombed hair work for me!!!!! (No avitar for that one tho!)

Originally posted by Laura M
Since I do alot of work at home, then a flannel nightgown and uncombed hair work for me!!!!! (No avitar for that one tho!)

Oh but to be a fly on your wall.:eek: ;) :smokin:

This is my two cents worth. I came from the MFG floor, but as I moved up I wanted to be a better image for the Company as well as the Image to the Customer. There are areas that need image and areas that don't need as much image because they are not in the main stream of public relations.
Now saying that I have opened myself up to lots of opinions. How do you relay signals to the customers or suppliers even in house departments that you care and/or at least wanting to have some sense of organization. You only have 1 time to make first impression. (showmanship and presentation):p That's my take on the subject. We had a sales guy from the Chicago office come to the plant to meet the customer last week. The sales guy wore a WWF-T under a flannel shirt open and jeans complete with hole.:rolleyes: I was impressed and the customer expressed as well.

Giving the proper impression goes beyond dress. I expect our Quality Office and Lab to be kept neat and clean. We are a manufacturing environment, when a Customer visits the impression I wish him to have is that of quality. Our tools of the trade and our work area should reflect quality. How many of you have visited a vendor to find the quality area lacking proper housekeeping? Often the quality coming from this type of environment is less than desirable.

Laura,

Considering you have never laid eyes on me, is your perception of me conceived by what I write or what I beleive?

The bag comes the closest to fitting my sense of humor...as most of you know.

I don't beleive I said anything about sloppy or uncombed, but about casual and over-kill as I like to call it.

If first impressions are that important to some of you then I feel your forming an opinion of someone before they even open their mouth and that's a mistake. I would be curious to test your judge of character by puting some people in a room and have you observe them and rate them on a scale of 1-10 as far as importance. Maybe that would cure the "perceived" importance of dress.

And I'm quite sure opinion's have been formed about some of us without even catching a glimpse of us. To add to that perception, I do my best work around midnight dressed in my underwear and pocket tee.

I'm sorry if I stepped on some toes, but a person's clothes don't rank very high on my list of life's important attributes.


:bonk:

Originally posted by Ken K
Laura,
I don't believe I said anything about sloppy...
:bonk:

Ken,
My bag wearing friend:biglaugh: this is where "sloppy" originated in this thread:Personally, I'd rather do business with someone who is dressed sloppily that's a straight shooter
Yup, it was your post. You did not mentioned un-showered, matted or dirty hair or rotten and missing teeth!:biglaugh: :smokin:

This is what I say. I prefer to dress in a suit and tie thats just me. When a client comes in to do an audit of our company and they are wearing a golf shirt and dockers it almost says to me they don't respect us (the company I work for) or for that matter the company they work for. When I audit our suppliers I wear a suit and tie to show respect to the people I am meeting with. If I see that it makes them un-comfortable I am not opposed to removing my tie and jacket, I would not be caught dead walking into a meeting with clients/suppliers with a golf shirt and dockers on, that to me shows no respect. As a matter of fact this is off the topic a bit, but I was talking to one of our suupliers today and when I get off the phone my office mate asked who I was talking to "The President of the United States", I was like why? "You were calling him sir", it just caught me off guard because that is how I talk to everyone, I see it as showing respect somthing I think many of us today have gotten away from doing. Maybe I am just old fashioned for my age (just over 30).

Discipline,Self-Discipline, or Shitsuke. All point towards appearance, communications and general personal neatness and cleanliness:p Same understanding or respectfully complying to.:ko:

Kudo's ISO Guy - keep it up!! You have a comodity that is disappearing at an alarming rate... manners, :D and I don't think age has anything to do with them. It is truly sad, but more and more people are forgetting the very basics, "Yes Sir/Ma'am, No Thank You, Please, You're Welcome, etc. (Sorry... I'm certainly not Miss Manners - but my mother sure beat them into me as a child.)

The reactions I get from people is astounding... for example, if I'm at a drive-thru (Burger King, Micky D's, etc.) or at a restaurant or at a grocery store and I say "please" and "thank you" to the person taking the order - they are almost dumbfounded that someone is actually polite to them. :confused:

I heard a couple of kids playing behind our house the other day. One little boy's mom called him and he said, "Yeah...." If I said, "Yeah" instead of "Yes Ma'am" or "Yes Sir" to my mom or dad (or any other adult within my parents hearing) I would have hell to pay.:eek: :eek: :eek:

"Considering you have never laid eyes on me, is your perception of me conceived by what I write or what I beleive?

I'm not sure I have a perception of you, I just tend to see the humor in things, and when you said "Personally, I'd rather do business with someone who is dressed sloppily that's a straight shooter " and your avitar was a bag on your head, I chuckled. That was what the "roll eyes" sarcasm smilie was for.

If you go back to my first post, I said casual is OK as long as you're not sloppy (sorry, energy, it was me.) and backed it up with my experience when things went casual. I wasn't accusing anyone here of being unkempt but commenting on what I've seen in the business world that is INAPPROPRIATE. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed between business casual and "sloppy". That's all. :agree:

The thread started with dress code in the workplace. Not meeting the president, suppliers, customers, etc. I maintain that someone who wears a tie or jacket during the normal day to day to routine, without a specified dress code, thinks that they are above and beyond their co-workers. For a group of Quality Professionals, I am constantly amazed at the interpretation of a post. That's probably why there are problems with Auditor's interpretations. I like to go off on tangents once in awhile, but, I tend to back up and try to determine where I went astray. Take your suits, ties and reasons for dressing up and put them with your archived, obsolete procedures. How do you dress around your co-workers and why? It really is that simple!:agree: :smokin:

Call me insane, but if my boss asked me to wear a dress would I have to shave my legs?

How far up?

How about a poll?

Edit: Talk about bad timing.....a poll on energy's topic, not Al's legs!

Laura,

Poll sounds good, and no, don't include my bony, hairy legs!

By the way, does a toga constitute a dress?:bigwave:

Just to chime in, everyone at our location is provided uniforms (gray/white striped shirt with gray pants). The only difference - Managers wear blue/white striped shirt with either tan or dk. blue slacks...

And even the managers put on old 'grays' if they're going to be out on the floor and only wear the 'blues' when company is expected. Recently we were told if we were working in the 'office' area only...we could wear street clothes but must change if needed in the plant.

Personally: I feel like i'm in prison garb in the grays and prefer to where street clothes in the office and my attitude changes with the clothes I wear. If I'm dressed in jeans...I'm more relaxed in my approach to work, say what I think and keep on going. If I'm dressed nice (business casual to dressy) I tend to stay calmer and more 'professional' (hehehe, for a hot-headed-loudmouth this is tough to admit! :p ).

E Wall,

Quite surprised at the turnout. However, I'm surprised about how many comments were aimed at "outside" contacts. Of course you make special pains at appearing professional when dealing with external parties. I was looking for what Randy alluded to in his "tie" post. I know that many of the members and nonmembers are in the group of people who wear the "badge" and I was looking for any reason, other than authority and letting those underlings know who you are, for doing so. I've been there. When I was promoted to a Manager in the 80's, all the other Managers wore slacks and ties. I strutted along with them enjoying the "recognition" that I made the jump from "us" to "them". In the three positions I've had since then, neat was expected, not formal. The quality of my work hasn't been affected one bit by my attire. I believe there is a deep seated belief in those who wear the "badge" when not required to, that they believe that they are the "creme de la creme". A lot has to be with ambition, too. If the CEO or a top level manager dresses a certain way, and your position allows you to emulate there dress, they do it to let them know they're one of them. So, I see it as a desire to distance them selves from their co-workers because of the desire to advance their careers or just to let the others know that they are a cut above. I guess I was just looking for another view point. I bet you don't wear one!:biglaugh: :smokin:

Here is my take. I gave away my suits about three years ago (they must have shrunk). Haven’t bought a replacement yet! In our business (consultants to small and mid-sized manufacturers), we tend to be a bit less formal. Often, I will go on a sales call with a sales person, as the “technical guy”. Usually, it makes more sense if I am dressed more casually. We have found that Quality Managers tend to direct all their attention to me, and not the guy (gal) that is in more formal attire. The “perception” is, that I can relate better to them. If we meet with executive management, the discussion is almost always between the “suit” and the prez.

We often gage who will go visit a particular client, based on the client. One of our client is a rather “salty” individual. A co-worker finds him refreshingly vulgar. Another is a Deacon at his church. Because of my active role in my church, I am the contact. Pairing of cultures is a natural way to build business relationships. Dress, or attire is one way achieving this. Even with Al’s bony, hairy legs, should a kilt be necessary, I’m sure he would pull it off nicely.

I’m not sure what to do with a bag over one’s head.

Dave B (the other Dave)
;)

Since I spend 50% of my day on the production floor, a suit and tie or even casual is out of the question. So my choice of attire is "used, but not sloppy". Presentable, but not formal.

As for the bag, I go thru about 20 of them on a bad day. My wife buys the economy package which I keep in my desk drawer. If first impressions mean that much, I want my bag to be presentable.

I tried to talk her into taking a picture of me doing my midnight work that I could share with you, but after hearing my explanation of why and where, it was a no-go. She mumbled something about frightening children...
:ca:

It was required at one time that all "Uniformed Captains" (there were 2) of my old PD wear white shirts. As the senior uniformed officers of the department it was felt that it made us look more professional and impressive, and that everybody would know who was in charge. ( Our rank structure had 3 Captains directly below the Chief of Police managing different divisions of the PD).

What the white shirts did was make us targets. You tended to draw the attention, and sometimes the gunfire, of everyone. You could'nt do anything without some bizzy body reporting to the Mayor, or City Council that Captain such-and-so did this or that.

The white shirts also created a type of seperation between us and the "real cops". We didn't need that. We had to be part of the troops so to speak. We didn't need a distinctive form of dress to be identified as a leader. All the people we lead knew who we were and what our authority was.

We eventually went into dark blue shirts like the "regular" guys. There was never an issue as to who was in charge or any confusion associated with the lack of a distinctive "badge".

There is a time and place for being "formal" and a time and place for being "casual", but I don't think it is appropriate that attire be used as a distinction just for show or warm fuzzies.

Resurrecting this thread because My dress code has varied a lot over the years....

First off, understand that all my jobs have been in manufacturing in the North East. That being said I've dealt with the following dress codes:

- Plant Industrial Engineer. Depended on what I was doing. If I was going to be in the plant all day, clean T-shirt and jeans was fine. If I was going to be in the office most of the day then business casual was the rule. Tie on occasion, like for customer visits or corporate bigwigs coming.
- Corporate QA Engineer - shirt/tie Mon-Thurs. Casual on Fri. In the last 6 months I was there it went to casual every day.
- QA Manager - Business casual most days. Ties for customer visits. NO JEANS*.
- Corporate Project Manager - In the office and on customer visits: Shirt/Tie. In the field and on Fridays: Jeans and collared shirt.
- Plant Operations Manager - Jeans and Collared shirt just about every day.
- QA Director (current): Business Casual, Jeans on Fridays.

* - at this job I got near perfect performance reviews, the only comments being I had little respect for the (undocumented) dress code and did not wear a tie "often enough"