Does anyone have any opinions on good software to purchase to make life easier when it comes time to write the QM, Procedures, and other supporting documents?

This forum has been very helpful and I want to thank all those that help people like me!

Julian

Julian,

I've always preferred to use standard word-processing software. Keeping the documentation simple seems to make revisions easier to maintain, year-after-year. If you use a canned software package that's specific for ISO 9001 documentation and decide later on to transition to a mainstream software, it may be difficult to convert. This can also be true if you use a lot of graphics. In my opinion, you're better off to use software that's compatable with other softwares that the company uses.

But, as I said, that's just my opnion. Read on for the views of others.

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler
:)

Agree with you Hank,

I think this type of software can be used a reference but that the benefit of of using your own software is a good learning experience.

If you write it you know it!

I think if you use the Cayman PDF files and search function you will be able to get everything you need.:)

I think any software will do really. A procedure could take the form of written text, processflows, pictures, television (used for promotion of gadgets in supermarkets). Though, my advice would be to use software that will work through many years of updates, ex MSOffice etc.

I have choosen to use MSWord and Excel for writing and for pictures. Visio for graphic process flow descriptions - it's easy to paste into word and you can add comments and resposibility by dividing your word document into 3 columns.

We use MS Sharepoint to mange our document system. The advantages is that it is easy to use and works without any problems together with MSOffice2000 (not really with older versions) and it is very very cheap compared to other document control systems (about 1/20th of the cost).

The best system will only have pictures, symbols and graphic process flows with reference to result documents. A good rule is that any procedure should fit on 1 A4 and the fontsize shouldn't bve less than arial 10:). If you manage this, I think the procedures even might be read and understood.

Fredrik

If I had it all to do over knowing what I do now, I would use Word, Access and Excel. This would have saved me tons of expense, training, etc. In the end I've converted to these from AQUA, Gagetrack and Powerway anyway.

Greg

I use Word and Excel. Wanted to keep it simple.

CarolX

Have you ever felt like a kid who know's about something new, and want's to share it with everyone? Well here's my rendition....

For something as simple as Excel, more convenient than Access & integrates with Visio for Flow diagrams, see www.fmeapro.com

We had the pleasure of trying an advanced copy with stunning new Graphical Analysis features...I wouldn't have believed it either...now I own it!

The folks at SAE seem to agree also...March 1st, they are the exclusive FMEA software supplier to the SAE membership...
www.sae.org

Big-3-Hand-Puppet:bonk:

I have used Qpak, Qpulse, Proquis and Quality Workbench - they are all OK but it really depends what your requirements are. If you need good traceability and control then Word or excel aren't goiung to do it. If you have lots of users I would look at Workbench or Proquis enterprise.

I would also look at mapping my processes in allCLEAR so you can analyse them for bottlenecks and cost of quality.

Just a few practical thoughts.

For writing manual and procedures I'm using Word and Visio.

For doc control - so far just plain old Adobe and restricted directories. Pain in the neck and looking forward to getting a software solution.

Richard, Proquis is one of the software pkgs I've looked at and it seems like it would work for us - but can you give me the scoop on its shortcomings? It appears to be straight Access and the screens don't look very detailed.....

In addition to Lucinda's question...

How many users are involved or how large is the company using Proquis?

Like others I would use MS Word for word processing, MS Visio for flowcharting (and other diagrams), and Access for creating databases.

Many software packages are generated using MS Access, unfortunately you have to buy a complete package most of which you wont use. By learning MS Access you can generate exactly what you want - I would recommend everyone in quality learn to use this software.

My boss doesn't want us to develop databases inhouse because he says that you end up spending alot of time developing it and it never works the way you want it to and then you have to fix it and that takes more time (internal expense) and then there will be a problem (more time)..and then when the person who put it all together goes somewhere you lose your knowledge base and have to spend alot of time and money to fix or have to scrap it when something else goes wrong with it.

He wants us to purchase a packaged product because then it should work correctly and you get tech support and it is ready to go on day one.

I spent alot of time researching software. Had a list of criteria for it. Narrowed down the choices to where I thought I had identified something with some critical components (Proquis). It's pricey but looks like it would do what we need and yes, it would be bang up and running straight away.

Problem: now I'm being told that it isn't in the budget for this year BUT you see I still need something for corrective action, internal audit, etc!

So what to do? Can't buy, can't develop!

Lucinda,

Do you have MS Acess? It's one of the components of MS Office (word, excel, etc.). I am just starting to learn myself, but many here at the cove are very knowledgeable in it's use. It will get you the basics of what you need. Good Luck!

CarolX

Carol,

Yes, we have Access but he doesn't want us to develop something on our own. Irony is that he sent one of my coworkers to a 2 day training class for Access! Now why would he do this?

I've told him that we have to have something. I may end up having to buy a book on Access and just learning how to do everything myself. Usually the best way to get anything accomplished anyway, right?

Access has a steep learning curve but it is well worth it. As to fixing and tweaking as you go along, it all depends how well the database requirements are defined before the design process.

I haven't looked for awhile but there may be a couple of samples in the PDF are you could joust with.

While I use some canned databases the inherent limitations are the scaleability. One size does not fit all.

Give me a yell if you need any tips.

What's the skinny on this pre-package stuff that is out for implementation ans system management? I've been asked about ISOTOP and a couple of other that already have pre-written procedures, charts and all the other bells and whistles necessary to have an ISO system. Of course I'm needing to focus on 14K supporting software.

Just a word of caution on using Access. It seems that in there endevor to corner the market with Windows & Office that Microsoft did not allow Windows 98 to update all Access programs. We developed a data base for our inspection request and results, we now have 2 machines that have to run an outdated version of Office because the 2 years of data would be lost and we can't translate the program into 98, 2000 or ME. My document control database transfered over just fine. I don't know what the problem was so I can't tell you what to look for. I have had no problem using Word and Acrobat for our Manuals and procedures.:bigwave:

Lucinda, Proquis has 2 versions - one is for small companies and up to around 25 users - based on access and very comprehensive but has limitations that access has. Contrary to experience of others I have found Access unreliable generally and easily corruptible in a multi user environment. There is a serious lack of version compatibility that has caused me serious pain in the past. Proquis desktop seems to do OK on this front but it certainly isn't for very heavy use. Their document control and traceability makes it easy, fast and pretty idiot proof. There are limitations on QS9000 - their FMEA, control plans, PPAP etc is not too hot but apart from that it is good and low cost. They have just brought out an enterprise system for large companies and heavy use - all web browser controlled. They are offering an ASP version that is quite cheap.

I ran some tests and trails on their ASP enterprise and it covers the ground and access from both Europe and USA to the same data was surprisingly fast. I would put this at the top of current offerings for multi site business. There are a few points - not all ISO functions are covered by this version when I tested. The Vendor control / Vendor auditing and equipment / gage calibration areas weren't complete.

If your IT support is not so good or your budget is limited the ASP is an attractive option and if you have multi-site or people work from home this has got to be worth a look. A word of warning - I've looked at several so called web/internet/intranet versions but they turned out to just publish stuff to the web not actually be a true web product. Proquis enterprise is the only QMS program I have located that is a true web product - unless someone can tell me differently?

What is the difference between the ASP and the other web version of Proquis that I may have seen? The web version that we had demonstrated and priced for only 15 or so concurrent users was not cheap by any means.

We would like to go web based since purchasing licences for three countries would be just as expensive plus then we would have to still consolidate the info into one location somehow. Concurrent number of users shouldn't be a problem because of the time differences. However, $40K isn't cheap and my boss says to always figure another 50% on top of the price for implementation.

We develop Access based information management systems professionally for ISO, so I'd like to share an observation or two. Most Access databases built "in-house" use macros because the creators don't have the time to learn code. This is the #1 reason why these databases do not convert. If yours was written in VBA and still will not convert, you may be using one of the little known but few troublesome parameters that do not convert. Our experience and approach allows us to successfully use the broad functionality of Access, which is available to the vast majority of businesses. Sure it has it's limitations, but what doesn't? I'd be happy to expound upon this further if anyone is interested. As for your database, perhaps we can convert it for you. I invite forum readers to ask questions and I'll try to answer.

Dave
www.veraccess.com (http://www.veraccess.com)

Julian,

Given where you are starting, 2 pieces of advice.

Since you have not prepared QM manual and procedures, first simplify any and all processes you can. There is no glory in writing 3000 work instructions if you can simplify down to 200.

Second, the single most common mistake made in looking at document control software is people neglect to consider how they will get started. Most document control packages do not have any method to mass configure your documents approval routing, approval status, etc. Most software requires you to register each document one at a time (inc. Power....). As a result many people never get initially implemented because by the time they get half their documents configured, the information is obsolete. I have known QC managers who were fired for this oversight and failure.

You will find that entire groups of documents go through the same approval process and have the same status, especially when you are first getting started. If the software you are considering won't let you define 100 documents as all going through your QS-9000 management team for approval, you are in for a difficult time.

Good luck.

You can find a list of some vendors at: http://www.searchmanufacturing.com/Manufacturing/Quality/iso.htm

Dear fellow Cove members,

If you would like I would be willing to post an example of my system that I made in access. It is very simple and uses no macros.

I share in your frustrations and have been down the road of purchases "canned" software systems that are too complex, do not work, need patches, training, etc.

Like I said, I am alwaysm willing to help out because lord knows there are too many things that elude me and I will need your help.

respond if you are interested and I will clean out some populated data and post.

Sincerely,

Fox