My company is under transition process to ISO 9001:2000.

To comply with ISO 9001:2000 we have undertaken gap analysis. The problems found in this gap analysis is how to audit management responsibility. How to ensure management commitment and how to find evidence that our management is taken responsibility to this system requirements.

Within the analysis, management only make an explanation verbally how they committed to the system.

Please make your advice in this problems.

Hsjahrir

This sort of commitment can be viewed objectively through managment review meeting minutes to see who has attended from top management. Allocation of resources is also evidence of top management commitment. As is establishing quality policy and quality objectives.

Any others ??

Communication is also key to Management Responsibility. It's all fine and dandy to have everything in place for a QMS, but this information needs to be communicated to every employee at every level.

It also needs to be stressed why you have a QMS. You may have one to meet Customer requirements or to address statutory/regulatory requirements or (harsh truth here for some industries) just to stay in business.

How components of the QMS are communicated is up to you. We have various tools in place at my company. Everything from a newsletter to huge signs showing results on our "Strong Goals" to crew and department meetings and so on.

Thanks for your response.

I need your further comments in specific, how to audit clause 5.2, Customer Focus : "Top Management shall ensure that customer requirements are determined and are met with the aim of enhancing customer satisfaction".

When we have more than 50 customers, how come our top management can ensure that each customer requirements are determined.

Contract or order review is actually done by Sales Department and approved by Production Manager. Shall our top management to be involved in each contract review to meet this clause 5.2 requirements ?

Furthermore, please your comments how to audit clause 5.4.2.(b) : " the integrity of management system is maintained when changes to the quality management system are planned and implemented".

Your comments will be highly appreciated.

Hsjahrir

This is a pretty bland requirement in the standard, and I understand your confusion.

Again like my previous comment Top Management ensure this happens by allocation of resources, etc. Not actually doing the job themselves.

The requirement is a bit broader than contract review also. It includes having systems and resources in place to collate data pertaining to customer satisfaction, analysis, and appropriate action.

As to clause 5.4.2.b you can only audit this if changes to the QMS have been implemented. A good example of this might be the acquisition of another company and the integration of its products into your product line - how is the quality of both your own product and the new product maintained. Evidence of quality planning on the new product might be a good starting point.

Mr. Greenway,

Since objective evidence of management responsibility can be found from various source (e.g, from MR,sales dept,factory maintenance dept), is it means that no need to audit top management ?

For example, we can audit of communication by auditing sales/marketing. Or auditing factory maintenance to find out management commitment to provide infrastructure.

The only way we can directly audit top management is in management review.

So, what difference of this new standard with ISO 9001:1994 ?

Your comment, please.

Hsjahrir
:frust:

Like you suggest I personally dont think, and wouldnt, audit Top Management commitment as an entity in itself.

However audit findings of activities in a certain area might, through audit trail, lead me back to evidence of a lack of top management commitment.

An example of this might be a planned internal audit that has slipped 3 months behind the scheduled date. Investigation might show that the auditor has not been allowed to undertake this audit due to other demands placed on him/her by their manager (this does occur in my experience). THis may suggest a lack of top management commitment to the QMS.

the auditor would look at the management review minutes content...what support is offered, followed up and acted on especially for resources...what about the quality planning stuff...do they walk the talk or just give lip service?

It is typically quite clear...the goals ond obj. .... are they communicated and supported at all levels of the facility? Ask the 'why' questions and listen carefully to the answers....pride in the system typically indicates committment on the top most level...is the head houncho involved or absent? each one can be taken individually and excused away, but bottom line.....it is usually quite clear, a gut feel based on facts from the interview and records.

Originally quoted by Hsjahrir:
"How to ensure management commitment and how to find evidence that our management is taken responsibility to this system requirements. "

On our side the management was been performing their daily Operation's Committee Review. In here, they discuss what happen in our production line, downtime's, process-related problem. A minutes of the meeting was documented. Each department had an action item to accomplish. These action items are tracked daily and was been continuously followed up by the GM. In my view, this could be part of management review.
Hope this helps. :bigwave:

Vash :cool:

Personally I think there is more to it then looking to see who was at a managment review meeting !

Originally posted by Vash Stampede
Originally quoted by Hsjahrir:
"On our side the management was been performing their daily Operation's Committee Review. In here, they discuss what happen in our production line, downtime's, process-related problem. A minutes of the meeting was documented. Each department had an action item to accomplish. These action items are tracked daily and was been continuously followed up by the GM. In my view, this could be part of management review.
Hope this helps. :bigwave:
Vash :cool:

We also have weekly "Production Meetings" , but they do not address the requirements of a bona fide Mgt Review meeting. The new standard defines inputs and outputs. To think that daily or weekly production type meetings may somehow constitute Mgt Review meetings, is whistling past the cemetary. In addition, IMHO, more than quarterly Mgt Review Meetings dilute the importance and the intent of Management Review. Ideally, to me, would be once or twice a year. Full blown, all day (or more) measurements of the QMS presented by Department heads with a scripted agenda passed down from Top Management. Of course, I may be indulging in overkill. :frust: :ko: :smokin:

Energy,

We do our management review in the same manner. We used to do them twice a year. We have recently changed that to a annual basis. The President and VP of Operations MUST be present to conduct this meeting. I (D & D Control) have created the Management Review Agenda ensuring the inputs and outputs from the standard are covered. We also cover other things that are not required. So if your indulging in overkill, we may be too! We also have departmental meetings conducted by the Dept. Supervisors. We do not maintain minutes of these meetings however. The Dept. Supervisor's do e-mail copies of short descriptions of what was discussed. As far as me documenting these dept. meetings and putting these e-mail memos in records, I do not do. Maybe I need to, I'm not sure.

I have a huge problem with Mangement commitment. Our President is a very (what's the word I'm looking for?) clueless guy. He is only here at the office maybe 1 or 2 days a week. When he not here he's in Florida at his second home. He doesn't have a clue in regards to this QMS stuff! Our VP is just getting the idea. I think that when I accomplish getting her straightened out, she can help me work on her brother (who happens to be the President)!!

Jamie

Originally posted by Jamie
Energy,
I have a huge problem with Mangement commitment. Our President is a very (what's the word I'm looking for?) clueless guy. He is only here at the office maybe 1 or 2 days a week. When he not here he's in Florida at his second home. He doesn't have a clue in regards to this QMS stuff! Our VP is just getting the idea. I think that when I accomplish getting her straightened out, she can help me work on her brother (who happens to be the President)!!
Jamie

Jamie,

That's a problem as old as I am. It's extremely rare that you find a CEO intuned to what is required for a good Quality System. They are concerned with product returns, warranty costs and blaming the lack of Quality as the cause. Other than that, I'll see you when I see you. Just recently I heard of a CEO hiring temps for two hours to fill up his facility so it looked like he had more employees than he really has. A potential Customer was touring the plant. It went well. I was offered some cash to sit in the Office and act as his QA Manager. How do you think you would feel working there with that type of Management commitment? Just keep making them look good. Things could be a lot worse.
:ko: :smokin:

I guess that is what they are paying me to do. I do wish they'd SHOW me the money! He has told me numerous times that he wants me to handle all quality "ISO" related "stuff" with ALL Customers. Right now I'm taking it a day at the time.