I have read through the various threads on ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 integration. From what I can see the integration of these 2 systems will result in an overall reduction of documentation of the 2 systems, amongst other benefits. The company I am currently helping to implement ISO 14001 is also ISO 900x certified (athough is seems to be in shambles).

Can anyone help answer the following questions:

During Certification of ISO 14001, to what level will the ISO 9001 part be audited and evaluated by the register? Will only the common elements be investigated, or will the 2 systems be considered as one, and therefore throughly evaluated?

Do the internal auditors have to be certified to audit both systems?

I apologise for the simplicity of these questions, but I am an absolute beginner to ISO 900x (and ISO 14001 some might argue! )

;)

Hi luke,During Certification of ISO 14001, to what level will the ISO 9001 part be audited and evaluated by the register? Will only the common elements be investigated, or will the 2 systems be considered as one, and therefore throughly evaluated? In a 14001 audit, 9001 will be disregarded. Only the elements relevant to 14001 will be investigated.Do the internal auditors have to be certified to audit both systems? No. I have a number of auditors: Right now only a few of them are qualified to audit both 9001 and 14001. (That will change as we intend to combine EMS and QMS into one system).I apologise for the simplicity of these questions, but I am an absolute beginner to ISO 900x (and ISO 14001 some might argue! ) There is no need to apologise. The only dumb thing with any question would be not to ask, so fire away.

/Claes

Luke,

Claes is right on. The integration thing comes in by not re-inventing the wheel. Use as many of the existing elements of your 9K system as possible i.e., Doc Control, Internal Audits, Management Review, etc. Then spend your time on the 9K specific stuff like Aspects, O&T's and all that.

P.S.

Nice web-site Claes:bigwave:

Nice web-site Claes Hey... Thank's, Randy.

/Claes

I think everyone has seen this, but just in case...

Very good chart there Marc, but.....there are purists that will say that you are going into overkill with the checked items. There are quite a few procedures, records and directives that are not specifically required to be written. I have no problem myself, but there will be some ninny try to toss bullfritters at ya I'll bet.

P.S
I will use it as a reference myself.;)

Nice one marc,

That's the first time I have seen the term "Directives". What excatly does it mean? :confused:

Directives are "Ye Shall's" as far as I understand it in this context. Randy?

Yeah, Randy, someone sent that to me at some time - I think it was keyed to ISO9K:1994. It someone decides to tear me up I'll throw them to an expert - YOU! Feel free to make changes and upload.

Here's another one I got somewhere.

I always look at 4.1 as the 1st requirement to be met "establish and maintain". Eveything else tells you how to do it.

Directive is a pretty good term, it has the feel of an absolute, no if's, and's or but's. The word "shall" leaves no room for guessing, if you don't do the 'shalls" don't waste your time on anything else.

Like I said, this is a good simple chart & so is the other one. I guess you'll be plagerized here Marc:eek:

Talk is usually about companies integrating an EMS into an existing QMS or perhaps trying to tackle both at the same time.

Has anyone encountered the opposite case? A company who has an EMS and is now looking to develop (and integrate) a QMS?Companies related to the oil industry (and the oil companies themselves) are likely to go in this direction.

What would be the differences? Anything? While it seems simple enough to say "do a gap, add what you need to comply to the new standard", I'm just not sure what else is missing.

I am familiar with a company in Michigan that was registered to ISO 14001 then Implemented an ISO 9001 system. The implementation process was basically the same as integrating the reverse. You would review your documentation, Records, Calibration, Internal Audit etc. procedures to ensure they meet the ISO 9001 requirements and develop the new procedures and processes which are appropriate.

One possible stumbling block is that ISO 14001 does not "require" as many procedures as ISO 9001: 1994. The new ISO 9001: 2000 is much more smoothly integrated.

In my experience integrating the systems is the only way to go. You can sometimes run into opposition where you have very separate Quality and EMS functions within a company.

Hope this helps.

Brandon

Our company is considering integration and therefore, I have been tasked with doing a benchmark of companies which have taken this route. My original thought was more in terms of the internal integration of systems rather than the integration of registrars and their auditing sysdtem.
Anyone who is willing to provide specific information about the pros/cons, etc of integration of QMS and EMS it would be greatly appreciated.
I ask that you send it to my email address since I would need to reference your companies name and the person who provided the feedback.
Currently we have some facilities that are QS9000 and ISO14001 and newer companies that are working toward both.
Again, any help you can provide would be helpful.

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