We are a Steel Coil Processing facility. We take large coils and trim the mill edge off of the sides. So a coil 36" inchs wide weighing 30,000 lbs. may be trimmed to 35.5 inches wide.

This is my question. How do you do a Run-at-Rate on this process? I am not familar with that term.

Not familiar with the term either. Can you elaborate a bit on where you heard it? And in what context?

James

Run at Rate is GM procedure GP-12, which is basically a production part run-off of XXX amount of parts that must have increased inspection requirements met before the sign-off.

It is part of our process to do 100% inspection of every coil that is slit. That is where I get confused with PPAP. It seems that PPAP is structured for multiple pieces. Where sampling is involved. We have a big steel coil. That is inspected from lead to tail. We don't take sample measurements of coils, we measure every coil that goes through the line. I don't know how this Run-at-rate can apply??? Need guidance.

Ford also has now "Run @ Rate" as a requirement for approving PPAP. It is a production trial. The purpose is to prove that your process produces parts with the quality required at the cycle time established. Usually, a small quantity of parts (in your case maybe only one coil) is produced with serial means, controls, operators, etc. at the cycle time foreseen. All controls included in the control plan are made. If everything is OK you can present the PPAP file to your customer with the results.
Basically, they want to avoid that you submit PPAP with parts made of prototype tooling or with any other condition that is not representative of series production.

DC-Ford-GM have their own totally different versions of run@rate.
Makes it tough when you do business with each OEM.:frust:

Look at :http://Elsmar.com/pdf_files/GM-ts16949.doc
which says:
Run at Rate (GP-9), (GM1960)
- Required for all new parts; physical verification that the production process is capable of producing quality products at quoted rates.

This is what I found elsewhere:
RUN @ RATE (GP-9)
DEFINITION: Physical verification that the production process is capable of producing quality products at quoted production rates.

PURPOSE: To reduce risk of failure during start up and acceleration by performing a production Run @ Rate beforehand.

SCOPE: All new part numbers require a Run @ Rate, unless exempted by the Supplier Quality and Purchasing Directors of the procuring division

PROCESS:
* Conduct risk assessment.
* Determine type of Run @ Rate required:
- Supplier monitored
- Customer monitored
* Notify supplier to schedule the Run @ Rate.
* Complete Run @ Rate.
* Follow up and make required improvements.

Note: GP-9 (GM -1960) last revision date is 2/95.

Atul.

I surely respect your opinion and posts, but early production contaiment for GM is GP-12, GP - 9 refers to GP-12:

Run at rate is also part of the Part Submission Warrant sent with PPAP. This can give the customer an idea of your capacity on the process. They can base their lead time on your numbers.

In Jim's case, I would guess the run at rate should be expressed in coils per shift or feet per hr/shift (something signifficant to the job you are doing).

Just another viewpoint.

Dave

If you have 6 or 7 processes or stages of operation before despatch to customer, what should be mentioned in the "run at rate" blank in PSW?
For e.g
if the cycle time of each stage is as follows
1 - 1000 nos /hr
2 - 300 nos /hr
3- 500 nos/hr
4-1000nos/hr
5- 600 nos/hr
6-200 nos/hr

Assuming you are doing a PPAP on the whole process as one part, you would have to look at the stages seperately to determine your constraint. The constraint is the "bottleneck" that determines how many FINISHED pieces can be made within a given time. For example, if you find a constraint as the first process in line, you may be able to elevate the constraint by "stocking" an inventory.

In the case you outline, the last process appears to be the constraint. Your "run-at-rate" would be 200 nos./hr. If you did some streamlining and raised that constraint to say 500 /hr, then your constraint becomes #2 and the "RAR" is elevated to 300 nos./hr.

Dave

I would sugeest you contact your customer for the particulars. Again, each customer has a slightly different requirement for their "run@rate". Ford, for example wants overall equipment effectiveness (OEE) figured in to the results.

Just an info update:
GM's Run@rate procedure GP 9 (GM1960) has been revised. Roll out and implementation to follow.

Become effective Jan. 03. How ever you can implement now if yopu prefer.

Run at rate is also part of the Part Submission Warrant sent with PPAP

Dave,

Where on the PSW is a line for "Run@Rate"? Are you talking about the "Declaration" section which asks for the production pcs./8hrs.? I only give our quoted capacity figure on that line - not the Run@Rate figure. Typically, with our customers, the "official" (customer on-site) Run@Rate doesn't even happen until after PPAP approval.

Just want to make sure I'm not missing something (not that hasn't ever happened!!!)

Bill

You don't ever miss anything LOL :vfunny:

Yes, I am referring to the declaration section. You are absolutely correct, the run at rate is a study in its own and I probably shouldn't have used the term for this section.

We have found that many of our customers and our QS auditor refer to it as a run at rate so we just follow along.

Sorry for the confussion. :truce:

Dave

DC- Determined at quote process.requires a PSO, either customer or supplier. R@R results to be maintainede on file.

Ford requires R@R with each PPAP submittal. (sectionII - PPAP)

GM - Determined at quote process.requires an R@R, either customer or supplier. R@R results to be maintained on file.

Dave and Sam, Hello to you both. New to the boards today, and very happy to have found such a resource. I am just an hourly shmo with no Qual degree but work with PPAP, auditors and such every day.
I am looking at table 1.4.1 and of the 19 elements for submission I see no R@R. I have never had any inside or outside auditor address this, but you never know what will catch their fancy some days as opposed to others.
Is the R@R perhaps contained within some of the required documentation such as the DFEMA ?
Will be looking for your knowledge to infect my brain. Thanks
Dadzee

DOH !
OK found it in sec 2...shoulda peeked all the way into Sams post for the section....So this is simply stating that when Process Potentials,R&Rs and such are calculated they must be with parts run at and in real world conditions ?
Dadzee

In the part submission warrant you only state the production rate.l
Ford often require an Overall Equipment Efficiency analysis as part of their Launch Readiness Review (find the bottleneck operation and calculate/measure the production rate)
GM's R@R procedure is GP9.
Exactly what an STA or SQE will want to witness is up to him. Often, if you have worked with them before, they will take your word for it and move on to the next supplier! In any case witnessing R@R is after PPAP.
Hope this helps