Mickeyman said:

I wonder if someone should start a separate thread for old warbird fans and musicians...?

I took Mickey's cue here. He posted this in the humour thread. There seems to be a number of warbirds and general aviation freaks around.

/Claes

Thanks Claes. Just wondering though

for old warbird fans and musicians

I hope this doesn't include too many "old" musicians...don't think I can handle listening to Mick Jagger too long. :rolleyes:



Love the warbirds, but really love the jets. While at the EAA I've had the pleasure of seeing the Concorde, Harrier, C130, Stealth Fighter, B1 Bomber and one performance that blew me away.

It was a couple of years ago and at the end of the airshow, we could hear a jet warming up in the distance. There were no other planes in the sky so we knew it would be a short fly-by. They usually restrict the jets from doing too much at the show mainly because of the location of the airport.

Anyways, a few minutes later we could hear the roar as it took off to the south right in front of us. He probably went a couple miles out and then he did a bank coming back in. He came down the runway maybe 200' above it, did a slow climb to the north and almost disappeared. A short while later he came in, only this time he was about 50' off the runway.

When he was almost right in front of us, he pulled the stick back, lit the afterburners and did the most unbelievable verticle climb I have ever witnessed. The sight and sound were amazing. I can't imagine how many G's he pulled, but he was gone in no time.

He was about a mile up when my wife leaned over and said she never knew fighter jets had headlights on the back of their wings. I explained to her she was witnessing the burning of numerous gallons of jet fuel and not headlights. She also was impressed.

Almost forgot...it was a F16 with attitude.

Thanks Claes!!

While this isn't an "old" warbird... in the museum of Wright Patterson Airforce Base... standing directly under the North American XB-70 "Valkyrie" ... a moment of awe at the design & skill that could build such a bird.

What an amazing aircraft!!!

Still... the B-17 is without a doubt my favorite aircraft... 2nd place: Spitfire & Hurricane in a 3 way tie with the P-38 Lightning.

Can't forget the Germans: Messerschmidt ME-109, Dornier DO-17Z, the Junkers Stuka.... incredible planes.

Cheers!

Michael T said:

Can't forget the Germans: Messerschmidt ME-109, Dornier DO-17Z, the Junkers Stuka.... incredible planes.

Cheers!


Amen to that.
Although I am not a big fan of the jets, How can you beat the ME-262. The worlds first operational jet fighter. With a design so modern and sleek it still looks like a modern design.

I heard a few years back that someone down in Texas (I think) was trying to build some flying replicas. but I haven't heard anything recently. Now that would be something to see.

James

Speaking of things we hear but haven't confirmed, I heard that the former USSR is actually selling off some Migs. Has anyone heard anything about being able to buy one? I know you can buy a ride in one, but that's not quite the same thing...

This isn't old warbird stuff, but many years ago I had the opportunity to participate in an exercise with the 82nd airborne. I was a POW expert training them on how to process EPW. We flew to the training site in UH1s 'nap of the earth' style! Man what a ride!:eek: We sat facing the side door and one second you were look at the trees passing. A second later, you saw nothing but sky as the Huey banked. A second later you saw the passing dirt as the Huey banked the other direction. I loved it!!! :smokin:

I think they wanted to scare us "part-timers", but it made me want to learn to fly one of them puppies. :cool:

Mickeyman said:

Speaking of things we hear but haven't confirmed, I heard that the former USSR is actually selling off some Migs. Has anyone heard anything about being able to buy one? I know you can buy a ride in one, but that's not quite the same thing...

Mickeyman... if you can afford one of those... you are definitely out of my league!!! :vfunny: :biglaugh: :smokin:

If you do buy one... I want a ride!!! :bigwave:

In another thread, there is talk of trying to get us all together. Perhaps Mickeyman can provide the transportation to Marc's Cayman home for the get together (one at a time of course). What about it Mickeyman? :agree:

I'm too young to know much about the WWII warbirds, but I remember my Dad pointing out Mustangs, Corsairs, Spitfires, Lightnings, B-17's, B-29's and some Mitchell plane I don't recall in movies and telling me about them when I was young. He played with those as toys as a boy during WWII. He got to see a B-17 at an airshow recently and really loved it. I'd like to take him to a good old plane airshow, but he won't fly to get there (afraid to fly)!!! Kinda ironic.

But for a young pup like me (30-something), I gotta say the SR-71 Blackbird is my favorite plane. So d*mn fast it outruns bullets and missles? Still the fastest plane ever a few decades after introduction? Flies over 15 miles up? Gotta love that!

One goal before I die is to go supersonic (or almost, if over land) in a fighter jet. Maybe one of those MIG's I've read about. If I ever get the $ and the guts! I envy those TV guys who get to go up in Tomcats or Eagles or with the stunt teams for promotional rides!

Mike S.

Quote:
"In another thread, there is talk of trying to get us all together. Perhaps Mickeyman can provide the transportation to Marc's Cayman home for the get together (one at a time of course). What about it Mickeyman?"

Good question. How many G's can you pull?

Mike S. said:

I'm too young to know much about the WWII warbirds, but I remember my Dad pointing out Mustangs, Corsairs, Spitfires, Lightnings, B-17's, B-29's and some Mitchell plane I don't recall in movies and telling me about them when I was young. He played with those as toys as a boy during WWII. He got to see a B-17 at an airshow recently and really loved it. I'd like to take him to a good old plane airshow, but he won't fly to get there (afraid to fly)!!! Kinda ironic.

But for a young pup like me (30-something), I gotta say the SR-71 Blackbird is my favorite plane. So d*mn fast it outruns bullets and missles? Still the fastest plane ever a few decades after introduction? Flies over 15 miles up? Gotta love that!

One goal before I die is to go supersonic (or almost, if over land) in a fighter jet. Maybe one of those MIG's I've read about. If I ever get the $ and the guts! I envy those TV guys who get to go up in Tomcats or Eagles or with the stunt teams for promotional rides!

Mike S.


Mike,
As far as being young and loving the old warbirds, I was born in '55, well after most of these planes had been retired.
You shouldn't need to fly to get to an airshow they are all over. do a search on the internet.
SR-71 is a beauty. And a technical wonder. Sure can't argue that.

James

Thanks to Claes for starting this thread!

I'm also too young (b. 1949) to have direct experience with WW-II warbirds, but I have been around aviation all my life. My father was a well-known aeronautical engineer, and his father was in the RAF in both World Wars. Since I am working in commercial aviation, I suppose it must be in the blood or something. But having various vision problems keeps me firmly out of the cockpit.

Aaah, the smell of jet fuel in the morning ...

I would be hard-pressed to name a "favorite" aircraft. I could narrow it down to ten or so, and most would be fighters. (I grew up hearing stories about Johnnie Johnson and Douglas Bader, and my grandfather was a fighter pilot. My father used to work for Dick Frost, who earlier was project manger of the X-1 project and sometimes flew chase on Chuck Yeager.) But my favorite warbird overall is, I believe, the F-111. In spite of all it's troubles caused by being forced to carry everybodys "wish lists" it has done a marvelous job over time.

There are others, of course. But I also have noticed a lot of humorous things, especially in film. My all-time favorite is in the movie "Dam Busters". In one scene an Avro Lancaster (accurate) is shot down. On the way to the ground, it transforms into at least four other aircraft types!. I don't remember them all right now, but in one shot it has magically become a B-17 ... maybe they thought nobody would notice?

SR-71 ... when I was stationed in Okinawa in 19XX the official position was that the Blackbird was not stationed there and did not fly recon missions over Southeast Asia from there. The fact that they very noisily left a couple of times a day and headed off that-a-way was just collective imagination. Same place the B-52's weren't going to ...

Based on sheer massive tactical ground-support armament on an airplane, my second-place vote goes to the AC-130 Spectre. "A" as in Attack. "C" as in Cargo. The airframe is a basic C-130 Hercules. Then you add a 20-mm Vulcan chain gun, a pair of dual Oerlikons, a 120-mm howitzer, and now the ability to control those Predator drones ... I would much rather have that on my side than be up against it!

So much for that now -- got to listen to my "oldies" music for a while.

Graeme

JRKH said:

Amen to that.
Although I am not a big fan of the jets, How can you beat the ME-262. The worlds first operational jet fighter. With a design so modern and sleek it still looks like a modern design.

I heard a few years back that someone down in Texas (I think) was trying to build some flying replicas. but I haven't heard anything recently. Now that would be something to see.

James

Here you are James: Try http://www.stormbirds.com . I bet that'll keep you happy for a while...:p

/Claes

You don't have to use a socking big engine to make a nice aircraft. Check this little beaut out. I've spent many hours in it. Once as much as 8h15min in one flight. But alas... That was a number of years back...

/Claes

Graeme said:

*snip*
SR-71 ... when I was stationed in Okinawa in 19XX the official position was that the Blackbird was not stationed there and did not fly recon missions over Southeast Asia from there. The fact that they very noisily left a couple of times a day and headed off that-a-way was just collective imagination. Same place the B-52's weren't going to ...
*snip*
Graeme

Okay Graeme - now you're scaring me... :bonk: That wouldn't happened to have been Kadena would it? I wasn't there in 198X either ... and never saw the Habu ... ;)

Interesting fact about the SR-71 - it leaks like a sieve on the ground, but tightens right up under pressure...

That is an amazing aircraft!

Cheers!

Okay - since we're kinda showing off... here's a picture of the plane my dear old dad just made. He's got 30 - 40 hours in it already and is now talking about making a bigger one...

So...I guess I come by my love of aircraft honestly.

Cheers!!

Michael T said:

Interesting fact about the SR-71 - it leaks like a sieve on the ground, but tightens right up under pressure!
Heat, isn't it? Less pressure as it goes up. They take it up, get it warmed up and then fuel it as I understand it. I may be wrong.

Michael T said:

Interesting fact about the SR-71 - it leaks like a sieve on the ground, but tightens right up under pressure...

That is an amazing aircraft!

Cheers!

Yeah, I read about that. The air friction heats the skin of the airframe so much that the tanks seal up...

Now that this beast is no longer in service: I really do wonder what you guys had up your sleeves to replace it with? No one is going to con me into believing that it hasn't been replaced...:cool:

/Claes

Whups... Simultaneous posting again.. Yes Marc, that's it

Michael T said:

Okay - since we're kinda showing off... here's a picture of the plane my dear old dad just made. He's got 30 - 40 hours in it already and is now talking about making a bigger one...

So...I guess I come by my love of aircraft honestly.

Cheers!!

Wow.... It looks great! I want one.....

/Claes

Claes

Thanks for the link. All I can say is OH BOY!! can't wait to see one of those birds at a show.

James

My favorite has to be the Corsairs. I love the way they look while flying. One of my favorite shows was the "Black Sheep Squadron". I still watch it in reruns now.
Never had the oportunity to fly anything other than a single engine Cessna, and that was only once. But the Navy gave me lots of oportunity to jump out of perfectly good planes!!!! But that's another story.:eek:
:biglaugh:

Marc said:


Heat, isn't it? Less pressure as it goes up. They take it up, get it warmed up and then fuel it as I understand it. I may be wrong.

You and Claes are probably right. I am probably mixing up my military vessels... It's heat for the SR-71 and pressure for the submarines... I think. Too many useless items running around my brain some days... :biglaugh: :bonk:

Claes Gefvenberg said:



Wow.... It looks great! I want one.....

/Claes

Thanks Claes... my pops calls all the time, clucking about climb rate and cruising speed and this and that. He loves his plane. (Considering it's been about 25 years since he last flew - I think he's in paradise)

This is a kit plane - not too expensive from what dad says. I told him to make sure that he understands... when he can't fly it any more... I get it... :ko: That will be my incentive to finally get my pilot's license. It's just so darned expensive anymore...

Randy Stewart said:


......the Navy gave me lots of oportunity to jump out of perfectly good planes!!!! But that's another story.:eek:
:biglaugh:

Never could figure that one out. Why would anyone choose to jump out of a plane with a perfectly good engine?:vfunny: :vfunny:

James

JRKH said:



Never could figure that one out. Why would anyone choose to jump out of a plane with a perfectly good engine?:vfunny: :vfunny:

James


For the gloooryyy - shipmate, for the gloooryyy....

As a SEAL friend of mine used to say... :biglaugh:

Should I mention that I always thought he was half a bubble off plumb?

:bonk:

CHECK THIS OUT.

Here is a link with a video's about the B-17. I Played them on Realplayer.
Very Interesting.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/B17.html


Happy Landings

James

I am still thinking about Oshkosh!

What might tip the balance would be to see a Mosquito Flying. Does anybody know if there will be one in Oshkosh? If not where can one be seen?

Andy Bassett said:

I am still thinking about Oshkosh!

What might tip the balance would be to see a Mosquito Flying. Does anybody know if there will be one in Oshkosh? If not where can one be seen?


I found this on a RAF Mosquito website:

Very few of this graceful aircraft entered preservation. One flying example, owned by British Aerospace, was a very popular item on air display programmes for many years. The Aircraft was a Mosquito T Mk 3 G-ASKH/RR299 and was operated by them at Hawarden near Chester. Unfortunately, the aircraft crashed on the 21st July 1996 during a display Barton Aerodrome in with the loss of both crewmen. Currently there are thirty three Mosquito airframes in Museums in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Norway and South Africa. These, remarkably, include W 5040, the prototype, which is located at the De Havilland Aircraft Museum at Salisbury Hall, London Colney near St Albans, where the Mosquito prototype was originally designed. There are currently two Mosquitoes with the potential to fly again. One in Canada, where Bob Gens from British Columbia has acquired Mosquito B.35 VR796/C-HMC and one in the USA, a Mosquito B.Mk.35, RS712, owned by Kermit Weeks in Florida. RS 712 was flown to North America in 1988 from Britain, where it appeared on the air show circuit for a few seasons before being put on display in the EAA Museum at Oskosh, Wisconsin where it remains on display having not flown for the past six years.

Regards

James

For the gloooryyy - shipmate, for the gloooryyy....

Nothing like a night time HALO (High Altitude Low Open) to make you forget all about glooooryyy!!!!!:eek:

Andy Bassett said:

What might tip the balance would be to see a Mosquito Flying. Does anybody know if there will be one in Oshkosh?

I'm from Michigan, but I think I can speak for Wisconsin. I am quite confident in saying that Wisconsin will have more mosquitoes buzzing about than your bug zapper can handle. They might not be the kind you are looking for, but they will be out in swarms!:eek:

-------------------------------------------------------

Randy said:

Nothing like a night time HALO (High Altitude Low Open) to make you forget all about glooooryyy!!!!!

I've never jumped, my knees could not stand the strain, but boy I'd love to! I do think I would rather HALO than static line. :) :smokin: :thedeal:

Randy Stewart said:



Nothing like a night time HALO (High Altitude Low Open) to make you forget all about glooooryyy!!!!!:eek:


Like I said - my friend is a half bubble off plumb. He thought He*l Week was fun. FUN?!?! Yeah... masochistic - that's what I call it.

:ko: :biglaugh: :smokin:

Reading all the posts regarding fixed wing aircraft, I’m inspired to add another aircraft to the list. Not a jet. The Ad-5 (EA-1E Skyraider). A reciprocating engine plane, powered by a Wright 3350-18 cylinder, fuel injected-rotary cam-two stage supercharged engine in a plane nicknamed “The Flying Dump Truck”. Having spent 3-1/2 years as an Aircrewman aboard this aircraft, on several Aircraft carriers logging several hundred hours of flight time, it just has to be mentioned. So here goes. You don’t see too many of these at Air Shows. They aren’t flashy. Just like me. But, they are durable.

The following passages come from book called the “Skyraider” by Rosario Rausa.

“During a qualification landing aboard a carrier off the California coast in the early 1950’s, the pilot took the cut, chopped his throttle, and adjusted the aircraft’s nose attitude for landing. But as the plane struck the deck, the tail hook skipped over the waiting cables. On the straight deck carriers, barriers were rigged at the end of the landing area to protect aircraft parked on the bow. Seeing those barriers after the “hook skip”, the startled pilot pulled the control stick sharply toward his lap. The Skyraider ballooned clumsily over the obstacles, only to have the tail hook finally catch-on the top cable of the number three barrier. The AD was thrown into the ship’s island structure and careened to the deck, skidding wildly on its left wheel.
Fearing he would be unable to stay on deck, the pilot added full power, and somehow was able to take off and fly away from the ship. The Air Boss then ordered him to proceed to North Island Accompanied by a Wingman. He did so and landed at the California base without further damage. About five feet of his starboard wing had been sheared off. The aileron was torn from its outboard hinge mounting and had streamed off while airborne. Yet the Skyraider and its human cargo survived.”
One more:
“Charlestown, RI, The pilot has completed his engine checks and was cleared for takeoff on runway 22. He had left the flight line with his wings folded, intending to extend them on the way to the approach end of the duty strip. He jockeyed into position, adjusted his alignment with the compass heading of 22 degrees, and added power. The airfield was quite busy at that time. In fact, not far away a landing signal officer working with another group of planes noticed the Skyraider with its wings up. “Quick, call the pilot” he shouted to the radioman at his side. Tell him to spread his wings.” In the control tower an alert sailor did the likewise. The Skyraider began to roll forward. Four times the controller in the tower called desperately as the Skyraider lumbered on, oblivious to its configuration. At the end of the fourth plea, the man in the tower rang the crash phone.
The aircraft, meanwhile, gathered speed. It left the ground at the 2,800 foot point and gradually gained altitude. The LSO watched incredulously. The Skyraider was flying.”
Cutting the rest of the story short, for a few moments the pilot noticed nothing wrong. After some control problems, it crashed at 135 knots with minor injuries to the pilot and the reputation that the Skyraider had flown with its wings folded. What torque that engine produced. My rate was, incidentally, Machinists Mate and I serviced those engines regularly. They also came with water injection, which increased the horsepower dramatically. What a plane. I have so many stories to tell about actual flying experiences, crashes, (yup, I missed a few as fate would have it ).That was business. Young man’s business. You guys are having fun. Looking back, it sounds like fun. At the time, sure. Today, nah! I have been following this post for a while and just had to get in here when I felt like some keyboard exercise.
Pwew!
:ko: :smokin:

Energy,
Great stories. It just those kinds of things that make one love an airplane.

As for the B-17 check out the attachment.

The story goes that a ME-109 sliced through the aft section nearly cutting the plane in half and carrying away the left elevator. This airplane flew for over 1 1/2 hours and landed at its base before breaking in half.

Just imagine.

James

This could be interesting...

The following story is not new, and not strictly warbirds related, but I think it fits in somehow... Don't miss the enclosed picture

/Claes
____________________________________________

By Police Reporter MATTHEW BOWMAN
28aug01

THE operators of a flying school at Parafield are confident their students can soon be back in the air despite the bizarre accident which wiped out nearly all the school's aircraft.

Four Piper Warriors and one Piper Seminole aircraft operated by the University of SA Flying School were severely damaged when they were struck by a runaway plane on Sunday night.

The planes - which will cost $1.5 million to replace - are likely to be written off by insurance assessors.

The twin-engined Seminole was virtually gutted when the runaway plane's propeller repeatedly chopped into the right side of the fuselage from the tail to the cabin.

The accident has devastated students and staff who were trying yesterday to organise similar aircraft they could lease. About 70 students are anxious to continue flying.

"I can't believe it - I've never seen damage like that before," said flying school graduate and instructor Jason Kreuzer. "It's just gone straight through (the other planes)," he said. "The students are devastated. It's a big break in their flying program which they can't afford."

The incident happened when a pilot not associated with the flying school attempted to "jump-start" his single-engined Piper Cherokee, which had a flat battery. It started and taxied away from him, crashing into the four Warriors parked about 25m away. It then continued on and crashed into the Seminole which was parked outside the flying school hangar.

University of SA spokesman Professor Robin King said the flying school would lease similar aircraft until permanent replacements could be bought. "Our prime concern is to get our students flying again as soon as possible," he said. "It's certainly a setback but one I believe we can overcome quickly."

Professor King said hand-cranking or "jump-starting" an aircraft's engine was an emergency procedure to be avoided if possible.

The damaged planes were moved inside the flying school's hangar, where they remained yesterday awaiting insurance assessment.

University of SA's head of aviation Professor John Thomas said: "It's an amazing example of what a propeller can do."

"A $200 battery has resulted in more than $1 million damage," he said. "It appears this person started the plane unaided and it got away from him. This incident highlights the need for professional training in aviation."

CASA investigators spoke to witnesses yesterday, including the Whyalla pilot, aged in his late 40s, who hand-cranked the Cherokee.

Is it too late to vote for my favorite aircraft? I like the P-51 Mustang. During WWII, their extended range made it possible to escort bombers all the way to germany and back whereas previously the bombers were flying unprotected because the other planes couldn't go that far. Some say this was a major factor in winning the war... Great dogfighter too!

Yes, the Mustang is a remarkable aircraft.... Having that great range and still being able to dogfight so well...

But it wasn't remarkable until it got the Merlin up front...

/Claes

You sir, are correct! An amazing machine, that...

All these years later it is nice to see that people of many ages still care about the "old" Mustangs and other WWII aircraft. With this weekend being Memorial Day weekend in the US, perhaps it is fitting for all of the Cove warbird aficionados to give quiet nod of appreciation and maybe even a prayer for all of those brave guys (and a few gals) who flew those birds into war. And also for those who are doing it today as well. God bless ‘em!

Mike S.

Flying Rules to live by

1. Try to stay in the middle of the air.
Do not go near the edges of it.
The edges of the air can be recognized by the
appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and
interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there.
2. The three most common expressions in aviation are,
"Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh $h/T".
3. Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers.
4.Progress in airline flying: now a flight attendant can
get a pilot pregnant.
5. Its no longer a cockpit either.
6. Airspeed, altitude or brains: two are always needed
to successfully complete the flight.
7. A smooth landing is mostly luck; two in a row is all
luck; three in a row is prevarication.
8. I remember when sex was safe and flying dangerous.
9.We have a perfect record in aviation: we never left
one up there yet!
10. If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage,
It's probably a helicopter - and unsafe.
11. Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a
flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries.
12. Navy carrier pilots to Air Force pilots: Flaring is
like squatting to pee.
13. Flying the airplane is more important than radioing
your plight to a person on the ground incapable of
understanding it.
14. What is the similarity between air traffic controllers
and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If ATC
screws up, the pilot dies.
15. If something hasn't broken on your helicopter,
it's about to.

Notable Quotes

When a flight is proceeding incredibly well, something was forgotten.-Robert Livingston, "Flying The Aeronca"

Just remember, if you crash because of weather, your funeral will be held on a sunny day. - Layton A. Bennett

Never fly the 'A' model of anything. - Ed Thompson

When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity, as slowly and gently as possible. - Advice to RAF pilots in W.W.II.

The Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you. - Attributed to Max Stanley, Northrop test pilot

A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its maximum. - Jon McBride, astronaut

If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible. - Bob Hoover

If an airplane is still in one piece, don't cheat on it; Ride the bastard down.- Ernest K. Gann, advice from the 'old pelican'

Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I Am 80,000 Feet and Climbing. - Sign over the entrance to the SR-71 operating location on Kadena

You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3. - Paul F Crickmore

Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you. - Richard Herman, Jr., 'Firebreak'

There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime. - Sign over squadron ops desk at 13.Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ, 1970. (It was still there in 1972.)

The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities in life to experience all three at the same time. - Unknown


Happy Landings
James

JRKH said:

Flying Rules to live by

*snip*
Notable Quotes

Never fly the 'A' model of anything. - Ed Thompson

Happy Landings
James

I don't recall my dad ever saying that! :biglaugh: :vfunny: :smokin:

I do remember him saying this:

"How many times you gonna bounce it before you land it, boy?" :eek:

Thanks James - great rules.

Don't know who said this quote, but it works:

"A good landing is one you walk away from, a GREAT landing is when you can still fly the plane afterwards."

Cheers!!!

Anyone in the Cincinnati Area June 24-30 come down to the Lunken Airport. Flying examples of the B-29 (only one in the world) B-24, and B-25 are going to be there.
They will be selling rides in the B-25

You can bet I'll be down there.

James

James...

Thanks for the info!! Don't know if the wife would be up for a 5 hour drive just to lose me for the day... :rolleyes: I can always ask... Besides, I have an IOU on the Father's Day present - hmmmmmm.... this is starting to become workable... :ko:

If you're interested, there is an Airshow in Akron this weekend. I may try and get to that if I can get some time out of the shop. I'm trying to finish one project and start another while waiting on tools/equipment to arrive... *arrrrgggghhh*

Cheers!!

Mike

Cincinnati Area June 24-30

My kids live in Medina, and my 14 yr old son would probably love to go see that. I'm not sure I will be able to swing anything though. But I'll try!

Check the web site below. The 29 and the 24 might hit closer to Home.
I don't think that the B-25 will be with them though. I think she is owned by another outfit

Let me know if you guys can get down this way. There are a couple good hotels nearby, and the airport has a pretty nice resturant.

Speaking of the airport. Lunken field has a fine history all by itself. Eastern airlines started there, and Paul Tibbets (pilot on the Hiroshima mission) took his first flight lessons there (he was playing hooky from UC med school). Also the they have a nicely preserved old terminal building in the art deco style.

.http://www.cafb29b24.org/toursched2002.shtml


James

This isn't a war bird, but take a gander how close I used to get to work to these things.

Hey guys, here's an excerpt of something I got today. I still have a lot of bud's in military aviation and safety that send me stuff like this.

To refresh your memories.....A couple of weeks back an Air Force Reserve rescue helicopter crashed while trying to rescue some folks involved in a accident on Mt Hood in Washington

Here's a couple of photos... The UH-60 even though not my favorite (I'm a Huey guy) is one of the most rugged flying machines ever. The condition of this bird after what it went through will amaze you...it did me

Some of you were interested in the Me 262 reproductions currently being built. The first one is now undergoing taxying trials. See http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html

/Claes

Here's a new site I just found out about: http://www.warbirdindex.com/

/Claes

Hello all,
The boys are back in town

Welcome home to the can opener.....sorry.....the JFK.....

My warbird is powered by a quantum sigularity and has cloak and disruptors......I run it on alternate days from my Soverign class........

Hershal

Hi All,

Here are some of my favourite birds. I used to work on them in the Navy many moons ago

Greg B

I didn't know this thread existed until today. . .

Back in 1970 I worked for a Research facility for a major aerospace company 2nd shift while I went to school days. The Research was very interesting, and all I can say, is that I am proud of what the "things" I worked on have done around the world (and out of it) since.

While I worked there, I was fortunate to have associates who were crew chiefs amd mechanics during WW II in all theaters of the war. A couple of them ignited a flame in me. I was hooked on the P-40 ever since I saw "The Flying Tigers" with John Wayne as a child. I even had a flying gas powered scale model of one.

Now the best part. . . Here in CT, at Bradley Airport, was the Bradley Air Museum (Connecticut Areonautical Historical association) just at the East end of Runway 33. Several of the guys I worked with, were volunteer workers (and crew chiefs) at the museum. They talked me into joining, and I spend 3 years of weekend bliss restoring War Birds.

What some people didn't know, was the that museum was the most comprehensive areonautical museum in the world. about 1/4 of the planes there were one of a kind prototypes. . .like the YJ-1 Fury, the predecessor of the F-86 Sabre Jet.

I was on the bomber crew, and spent countless hours in the tail gun slot of a B-17 Flying Fortress, B-25 Mitchel, or a B-29 Super Fortress. Whenever there was an air show, I'd climb into the tail gunner's slot on the B-25, pop the upper hatch, and watch the airshow over my head. Now THAT is the only way to go!!

One memorable Summer, a bunch of us were flown down to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Aberdeen, Maryland on an Air Guard T-29 Twin Engine cargo plane. . . . to the Bone yard. . . to take apart a B-29 Super Fortress and ship it back to CT in pieces on flat beds. I still remember the first 30 feet of fuselage arriving with the green house style nose section. I was the guy who climbed into the well the nose gear was housed in, and pushed it down into position with my legs.

I was thin enough then to actually do a 180 Deg turn in the tunnel that ran from the forward compartment in front of the bomb bays to the waist gunners spot in the rear compartment. . . about 30 feet or so. This plane was also the first pressurized bomber developed by the US. . .

It was amazing sitting in the cockpit of a FG-1 Corsair (Goodyear version of the F4U) and envisioning a dog fight with Zero's. . . or sitting in the Pilots Seat of the B-47E Strato Fortress (First Swept Wing Jet Powered US Bomber) (About 35 feet up a ladder and a back breaking twist to get in the cockpit) and imagining contrails eminating from the 8 GE jet engines slung under the drooping wings. There were actually small, retractable landing struts in the outer 2 engine housings so that the wing tips wouldn't touch on landing. The inline tandem landing gear was the forerunner of the landing gear arrangement on the B-52.

I had the priviledge of escorting an airline pilot on layover around the museum one sunny afternoon, and when we got the the Lockheed Constellation (Triple Tail), I watched a tear roll down his cheek. . . he had been the pilot of that exact plane when Capitol Airways had it in service in the 1950's. THAT plane, was originally Howard Hughes private plane. He had sold it to Capitol Airways.

On October 3, 1979, a freak tornado touched down in Winsor Locks, CT. That tornado cut a swath right through the museum destroying most of the planes there.

I helped in the aftermath pulling up fences to stop looters. we found pieces of a C-54 (actually used in the Berlin airlift) 4 feet down in the ground. Planes the size the the C-54 were cartwheeled and ended on theit backs. . . broken forever. An F-89 Scorpion was actually thrown 1/4 mile and ended up on the roof of the airport fire station. Fortunately, the outer wing panels hadn't been installed on the B-29, so it was spun around and not destroyed. The F4F Wild Cat. . . the F6F Hel Cat. . . the P2V Neptune. . . the British Vampire. . .the Sky Raider. . . the C-54 . . the Panther. . . the Fury. . . the B-58 Canberra. . . the B-17. . . the Kanam Husky Helicopter . . the F-104 Star Fighter. . . the F-86 Sabre Jet and all the other one-of-a kinds. . . gone.

The C-133 Cargo Master, the C-130 Hercules, the C-119 Packet Fairchild, and the C-124 Globe master were huge transport planes. . . they were tossed around and flipped. . . their backs broken and the planes dismembered. The B-25H (Strafer version with 14 machine guns and a 75 mm cannon) was spared with a few dents. . . I still have pictures of myself sitting in the the cockpit that were taken by the museum photographer. I could imagine the carnage in front of me as being caused by an enemy attack. . . but Mother Nature sealed those plane's fate. I still have the maintenence manual for that plane (A copy actually) . .

This is a bittersweet story, but the fond memories remain. The museum is now located in another area of the airport with the entrance road to the North End on the airport property off of Rt 75, and most of the exhibits are indoors. Yes. . . the B-25 and B-29 look as if they could taxi out and fly away in full battle dress. There is the only remaining Sikorsky Flying Boat (Clipper) there also. The B-17 we had was once Pratt & Whitney's test bed for testing Turbo Prop engines. Later they donated the B-17, and used a B-45 (Smaller version of a B-47) as the test bed for jet engines. They later transitioned to a B-52. Now. . . that is only history. The Turbo Prop was mounted in the nose of the B-17. . . a 5th engine. I had a friend, whose father was the test pilot on those planes. . .the museum has a picture of that plane in flight with the 5 engines running. . .

The museum has authentic planes from the beginning of flight. . . and many flight oddities. . . Helicopters are there also. . . Heck. . .we have Sikorsky and Kaman right here in Ct. . .

I would stare in awe at the size on the F-4 Phantom and the Thunder Streak and F-102 Delta Dagger. . .and wondered how the heck those things got off the ground. . . Not to mention the Bernulli Lift Body air plane there. The body was actually a part of the wing.

I still picture the P-47 Thunderbolt (The Flying Jug), the P-51 Mustang, The Zero, the MIG 19 and all the other planes that survived and those that did not.

During my 3 years at the museum, I also learned to fly. . . and that Cessna 150 became my war Bird for a couple of hours a week. . I still have the 3 service awards I received from the museum affixed to my tool chest.

I'd suggest that anyone coming to CT for a trip, either business or whatever, stop by and see the museum. . . you can get a AAA or senior discount. If you know you will be coming this way, drop me an E-mail, and I'll be your guide if possible. . . but don't laugh if I bring some tissue along with me to the museum. . . I'll need it.

and. . . God willing, if the day comes that I am able to retire, I think I know where I will do my reminiscing. . . and keep my self busy.

I
The F4F Wild Cat. . . the F6F Hel Cat. . . the P2V Neptune. . . the British Vampire. . .the Sky Raider. . . the C-54 . . the Panther. . . the Fury. . . the B-58 Canberra. . . the B-17. . . the Kanam Husky Helicopter . . the F-104 Star Fighter. . . the F-86 Sabre Jet and all the other one-of-a kinds. . . gone.


Great Story Taz, you lived my boyhood dream. I was an aircraft technican for 20 years but never got to work in the nearby Naval Air museum.

There is a good, but small, aviation museum in Australia at a placed called Temora (aviationmuseum.com.au) and it has a small but 'all flying' fleet of aircraft including:
Supermarine Spitfire Mk VIII
Gloster Meteor F8
English Electric Canberra TT.18
DH-115 Vampire T35
Cessna A37B Dragon Fly
DH-82 A Tiger Moth
Cessna 0-2A
Lockheed Hudson

The Naval Air Association also has a museum (museum-of-flight.org.au) and it also has many aircraft

Aermacchi MB326H, (A7-077)
Auster J5G, (VH-BVY)
Beech Twin Bonanza, (VH-CDE)
Bell 47G Sioux, (A1-640)
Bell UH-1B Iroquois, (N9-882)
Bristol Sycamore HR51, (XD653)
CAC Wirraway, (A20-651)
DeHavilland Sea Vampire T22, (XG770)
DeHavilland Sea Venom FAW53, (WZ937)
DeHavilland DH.114 Heron, (VH-NJI)
Douglas C-47B, (N2-43)
Douglas TA-4B Skyhawk, Bu.142874
Fairey Firefly Mk.5, (WJ109)
Fairey Gannet T.5, (XG888)
Grumman S-2E/S-2G Tracker, (N12-153582 & N12-153600)
Hawker Hunter, (WV331)
Mig-15 (LIM-2), (LIM-2, 1A06007/VH-BPG)
Mig-17F (LIM-5), (LIM-5, 1J-0434/VH-ALG)
Westland Scout, (N8-101)
Westland Wessex, (N7-221)
Westland Wirlwind, (XM665)

I'll have to get down and see them some time soon.

Greg B

Wow, some great museums! Taz, what a story.

We have a museum here in Georgia, in Warner Robbins, that is worth a trip. Among the planes there are a U-2, SR-71 (with a spare engine), P-51,with a Merlin engine in the hallway around the corner, and lots and lots of other planes and choppers. Some of the displays (such as the P-51) are in life size dioramas with period gear. While there are lots of pristine aircraft inside, a walk around the grounds, with all of the retired aircraft, is worth the trip all by itself.

The air base there is on land that had been occupied by Indians, and there is a whole building that houses displays of Indian artifacts found there.

The place is amazing. If you have some time in middle Georgia, check it out. There is no charge (donations accepted).

While visiting an old (Not age-wise that is. . .) girl friend around 1974, I was taken to Chino Airport in Chino, Ca.

For those of you that are West Coast aviation buffs, there is (or was) a treasure of planes sitting on the tarmac near Chino Aeronautical Restorations. I don't know if the company is still there, but there were several B-17's, a Lockheed Electra, a P-40, P-51 Mustangs, a rare Grumman Bear Cat and several B-25's that were used in the movie Catch 22 with Alan Arkin. . . a coupe of T-6 Texans and other privately owned flyable vintage aircraft.

There were several P-51's, the Bear Cat, and a few other planes that were being worked on. They were actually Pylon Air Racers.

There is one chapter I left out of the saga above. . . while I worked at that research facility, there was one quiet technician about 60 yrs old or so. . . his name was Bob Granville. He was the son and nephew of the Granville Brothers. . . makers (and racers) of the trophy winning Gee Bee. . . the Bradley Air Museum has an actual Gee Bee racer, and another plane built by the Granville Brothers.

Bob never spoke about his father or uncle. I believe that they were both killed in crashes in GB's during races when Bob was a small child. The Gee Bee was famous in the late 1930's. i still see pictures and drawings of the Gee Bee on calendars from time to time.

To look at the plane, it is like having a huge engine with a cowl and fairing around it. . . a seat for the pilot, and a tail. The wings do not look as if they were long enough to support this plane in flight. . . but I have heard it referred to as an engine with a seat attached to it. That's about how it looks. The fuselage is fat and short. . . hardly beautiful. . . it sort of looks like a red and white private plane that needs a diet desparately.

As I remember more, I'll fill in a few more memories. . .

To look at the plane, it is like having a huge engine with a cowl and fairing around it. . . a seat for the pilot, and a tail. The wings do not look as if they were long enough to support this plane in flight. . . but I have heard it referred to as an engine with a seat attached to it. That's about how it looks. The fuselage is fat and short. . . hardly beautiful. . . it sort of looks like a red and white private plane that needs a diet desparately.
Good description :yes: and here it is...

http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO/images/geebee_400x307.gif

I found this picture at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/ I think any vintage aircraft nut (Wingnut) can have a field (airfield) day there...:agree1:

/Claes

Claes. . .

Believe it or not. . . 7-11, the plane in the photo IS the plane at the Bradley Air Museum. . . unless someone did a ditto on it. .

Believe it or not. . . 7-11, the plane in the photo IS the plane at the Bradley Air Museum. . . unless someone did a ditto on it. .Someone did. :yes: Its a replica.

/Claes

Taz:

I have heard/read that the Gee Bees, while very fast, were also very, very tricky to fly. Any experience in one, by chance?

Craig

I have heard/read that the Gee Bees, while very fast, were also very, very tricky to fly. So have I, and I suppose they must have been. I'm admittedly guessing now, but: That tiny wing (and no flaps) must mean a high wing loading, the big engine must have produced a good deal of torque. That probably indicates a high risk for nasty stalling characteristics and they were always flown at low altitude which means little or no time to recover... Small wonder people got killed.

/Claes

So have I, and I suppose they must have been. I'm admittedly guessing now, but: That tiny wing (and no flaps) must mean a high wing loading, the big engine must have produced a good deal of torque. That probably indicates a high risk for nasty stalling characteristics and they were always flown at low altitude which means little or no time to recover... Small wonder people got killed.

/Claes


Claes:

Going by memory (speaking of stalling) I think that it was the torque - and a small wing to counteract it. I am sure that the lack of time to get things sorted because of the low altitude when racing played a part as well.

I'd guess this is one way to go, fast.

Craig

Going by memory (speaking of stalling) I think that it was the torque - and a small wing to counteract it. Yeah. That's one of many ways to create a stall.

Imagine undershooting a bit on approach. What do you do? You open up the throttle of course. A wee bit too much and one wing falls out of the sky quickly followed by the rest of the aeroplane. Before you know it you find yourself inverted and stalling at very low altitude... bye...

Another way would be to pull a little bit too hard going around a pylon. Even at full speed, you can get yourself into a high G stall. The aircraft snap rolls and hits the dirt... bye...

Neither of these situations would be a problem if you have a bit of altitude...

/Claes

I have no experience flying in a Gee Bee. . . my adventures included Cessna 150's and 172's. . . I was with my instructor one evening when we did some "maneuvers" in a 150. . . non-aerobat, but we did a barrel roll, split S, and an inside loop. I enjoyed the heck out of it. . .only glitch was when we started the barrel roll and we got to about 90 degrees . . . my door popped open, and I was looking straight at the ground over my left shoulder. . . obviously, we weren't going too fast. . . There was also a time when I flew the 150 backwards. . .any experienced pilot will know what I mean. . .

I did some inquiries in the 70's with associates, and yes. . . the Gee Bee was a bear to fly. All engine and small control surfaces made it very unstable at low speeds. . . but it went like heck. .

One interesting note about the Gee Bee. . . it does not have a big paddle blade prop as you might expect to utilize that big engine. . .the prop is a constant speed prop but very narrow by War Bird standards. . .

They had an excellant repo of a Gee-Bee in the movie "Rocketeer".

James (Jimmie) Doolittle won the Thompson Air Trophy in 1932 flying a Gee-Bee.

They had an excellant repo of a Gee-Bee in the movie "Rocketeer".

James (Jimmie) Doolittle won the Thompson Air Trophy in 1932 flying a Gee-Bee.

Yup he did. . . and I believe that the Gee Bee was the top winner till 1938. . . I could be wrong though. . .

They had an excellant repo of a Gee-Bee in the movie "Rocketeer".
James (Jimmie) Doolittle won the Thompson Air Trophy in 1932 flying a Gee-Bee.
I might be Waaaay off base here....but did Doolittle have anything to do with the reprisal attack on Tokyo by B24s off the carrier?????

Edited by me: I did a Google search (thru the cove header - Thanks Marc) and it was Jimmy Doolittle with 'Doolittle's Raiders' and it was B25s not B24s

Greg B

I might be Waaaay off base here....but did Doolittle have anything to do with the reprisal attack on Tokyo by B24s off the carrier?????

Edited by me: I did a Google search (thru the cove header - Thanks Marc) and it was Jimmy Doolittle with 'Doolittle's Raiders' and it was B25s not B24s Greg B

It would really have been interesting to watch B-24 Liberators take off from an aircraft carrier. .

Yes. . .they were B-25 Mitchell's. . . mostly early A models

Hello all,
Just to let you know, we in Malta organize a good show, the following web site has all the details.http://www.maltairshow.com/RunScript.asp?page=&Article_ID=13&AR=AR&p=ASP\~Pg0.asp

I just felt like reopening this one: Me 262's are flying again: See http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html for more info.

/Claes

Cool...I have always thought the 262 to be a beautiful aircraft the maniacs running Germany at the time didn't really appreciate.

Cool...I have always thought the 262 to be a beautiful aircraft the maniacs running Germany at the time didn't really appreciate.

THANK GOODNESS THEY DIDN'T APPRECIATE IT.

IT'S GREAT TO SEE SUCH A BEAUTIFUL AIRFRAME IN THE SKY AGAIN. IT'S WHERE SHE BELONGS.
READING SOME OF THE TECHNICAL AND ENGINEERING STUFF ON THE SITE GIVES A REAL APPRECIATION FOR THE JOB THEY'RE DOING.

I'M ALSO GLAD TO SEE THAT THEIR AUTHENTICITY STOPPED WHEN THE REACHED THE SWASTIKA. THEY PAINTED THE GERMAN CROSS ON THE FUSELAGE, BUT LEFT OFF THE NAZI MARKING.

HOPE I CAN SEE ONE IN FLIGHT.

JAMES

Anyone in the Cincinnati Area June 24-30 come down to the Lunken Airport. Flying examples of the B-29 (only one in the world) B-24, and B-25 are going to be there.
They will be selling rides in the B-25

You can bet I'll be down there.

James

Do you have a link to this air show? My brother flies for Air Canada and loves the old stuff!

He wants to get the Pan Am clippers flying the super rich in high style again. Big, low and slow is the only way to go.

I just read a book about the Corsair. It looks like a plane should look and was tougher than nails from all accounts.

As a Canuck I have to saw that the Avro Arrow was the prettiest airplane ever to be scrapped for political purposes. But cancelling the program did free up enough good Canadian aerospace engineers to design the Concord and put America on the moon. Sorry, but they drill this kind of mythology into us from birth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow

Do you have a link to this air show? My brother flies for Air Canada and loves the old stuff!

He wants to get the Pan Am clippers flying the super rich in high style again. Big, low and slow is the only way to go.

I just read a book about the Corsair. It looks like a plane should look and was tougher than nails from all accounts.

As a Canuck I have to saw that the Avro Arrow was the prettiest airplane ever to be scrapped for political purposes. But cancelling the program did free up enough good Canadian aerospace engineers to design the Concord and put America on the moon. Sorry, but they drill this kind of mythology into us from birth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow


Sorry,
I'm afraid that this info is rather dated. But if you check with the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) I'm sure you can find out all the dope you need)
Another good source is the EAA (experimental aircraft association) They tour a B-17.

James

As a Canuck I have to saw that the Avro Arrow was the prettiest airplane ever to be scrapped for political purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow

I just led my 18 year old son to "google" the Avro Arrow last night. He was very impressed with how much the design was ahead of its time. It really was one of the world's most beautiful aircraft. Plus the political story that goes with it is a good lesson on the real world of politics.:agree1: